Has the right to dissent in this country vanished since 9/11?

[Rogan Josh]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
So if people are rude to participants in a Klan rally or a Neo-nazi rally, that's a bad thing?

Oh dear. MtG shows his true colours...

[Sava]

Nah, you can still protest, you just get insulted by the large collective voice of stupidity in this country.

[GePap]

at SpencerH.

While there is freedon of speech, and you can't silence those screaming at this girl, there is a basic difference. She is not screaming out something while the anthem is sung, or burning flags, or anyting at all: She is simply making a silent and diginified show of her opinion. If these people wan tot make a counter protest, then hold and American flag and wave it silently, period. That is a correct and equally as dignified an act. To scream and denounce her for her act, while still speech, is NOT the same thing, anymore than a sonnet fo Shakespear and the script of some porn movie, while both pieces of writing, are equal.

It's disgraceful," said Mount St. Mary junior Jess Varvatsas, who wore a Stars and Stripes halter top and brought a flag to the gym.

Where they out of edible red white and blue panties?

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Rogan Josh


Oh dear. MtG shows his true colours...

Which colors are those?

Or are you suggesting that the next time the Klan stages a cross-burning in a predominately black area, all the locals should be nice and polite and respectful, since it's just free speech? It would be nice if the world worked that way, but different symbolic expressions of political views are things are emotional triggers to different audiences.

If my "true colours" are that I don't have much sympathy for mountain out of a molehill exaggerations about lost "rights" by the left, then yep, that's the case.

All over the US last week, tens or hundreds of thousands of people peacefully demonstrated their opposition to a war with Iraq (which I also oppose, albeit for much different reasons than most on the left), with very few problems - none at all in most areas.

So one individual feeling picked on because she triggered an emotional reaction from the audience of her symbolic protest really doesn't get me all in a tizzy. Sorry 'bout that.

[Gatekeeper]

That young woman can do whatever the hell she pleases do, and that holds true for her detractors as well. I draw the line, however, if it escalates beyond exchanges of words. IOW, no violence. That's a red line.

People can agree to disagree w/o having to draw blood.

Gatekeeper

[MikeH]

Flags r gay.

[Chris 62]

She has a first amendment right to decent (however misguided)

People have a first amendment right to decent AGAINST HER.

Either you support both, or neither, so some of you should climb off those high horses, you look like hypocritical jackasses.

[Boris Godunov]

There is a difference between "dissent" and saying "get out of the USA if you disagree with me." The former is a legitimate expression of disagreement. The latter is a confrontational and, yes, aggressive way of trying to silence an opinion with which one disagrees.

One should disagree without resorting to name-calling or telling the other side to shut up.

[Kropotkin]

Haven't you learned to stop use that word against others yet?

[Chris 62]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
There is a difference between "dissent" and saying "get out of the USA if you disagree with me."

I disgree Boris, there is NO difference,

The former is a legitimate expression of disagreement. The latter is a confrontational and, yes, aggressive way of trying to silence an opinion with which one disagrees.

Her way is FAR more confrontational.
She could wait in the locker room untill after the National antheme is played, she CHOSES to make a spectical of herself.
It's both or neither, oterwise, you only support freedom of expression for her.

One should disagree without resorting to name-calling or telling the other side to shut up.

Or infuriating an arena full of sports fans.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Chris 62
I disgree Boris, there is NO difference,

I believe there IS and I CAN use CAPS as MUCH as YOU, TOO.

Her way is FAR more confrontational.

Bull****. She's not yelling at anyone, not telling anyone they should leave their country, not doing anything except standing in silence.

She could wait in the locker room untill after the National antheme is played, she CHOSES to make a spectical of herself.

Spectacle? She just turns around. That's not a spectacle. And she does it there because she is making the statement publicly. Protest is hardly effective if done privately.

It's both or neither, oterwise, you only support freedom of expression for her.

Except that, as I already stated, I'm not saying the marines/fans couldn't express themselves, I was just stating my opinion that doing so in that manner was crass, undignified and repugnant.

Or infuriating an arena full of sports fans.

If someone standing in silence infuriates fans, those fans have serious anger management issues that need to be dealt with by a trained mental health professional. If they don't like her protest, they should just say so (politely), stand and sing the national anthem as loud as they want and then ignore her.

[GePap]

How could the player stay in the locker room, specially she is a starter? She has to be out there.

Boris, you won't get very far: people who disagree with what she has done will not fogive her, or admit that there is a difference between a silent act of personal protest, and yelling out that she is disloyal. Both are acts of speech, yes, but F*ck you and I love you are both expressions ending in "you", and they are not the same.

MtG:
Its fine if you don't care, the probem is saying that the ones screaming at her to stop are on the same level as what she is doing. All speech is protected, but all speech is not equal. If they want to counter protest, sit there waving a flag in a dignified, solemn manner. What else do you need to do?

[JohnT]

Perhaps she oughtta pay a little more respect to the government that allows her to play bad Division-3 women's college basketball on a scholarship.

...

That's a JOKE, people!

[Chris 62]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
I believe there IS and I CAN use CAPS as MUCH as YOU, TOO.

You have a first ammendment right to use all the caps you like.

Bull****.

Not at all, you seem to say SHE has rights and THEY don't.

She's not yelling at anyone, not telling anyone they should leave their country, not doing anything except standing in silence.

Many find her actions FAR more offensive then any yelling done at her.
Do you not see that they are allowed their rights also?
You can SAY whatever you like in this country Boris, not pick and chose the method.

Spectacle?

Yes, spectacle.

She just turns around.

They just yell at her.

That's not a spectacle.

That time is put aside for the national antheme, at a sporting event.
To stage a protest is to make a mockery of what is intended.

And she does it there because she is making the statement publicly.

So are people yelling at here.

Protest is hardly effective if done privately.

If she protests, they have THE SAME RIGHT to protest her.

Except that, as I already stated, I'm not saying the marines/fans couldn't express themselves, I was just stating my opinion that doing so in that manner was crass, undignified and repugnant.

They view her protest THE EXACT SAME WAY.

If someone standing in silence infuriates fans, those fans have serious anger management issues that need to be dealt with by a trained mental health professional.

A total cop-out of a comment.
Anyone that doesn't protest the way YOU appove of needs mental heath.
What a strawman argument that is.
You will notice, I don't agree with her, but i don't say that she needs a doctor.

If they don't like her protest, they should just say so (politely), stand and sing the national anthem as loud as they want and then ignore her.

In other words, people can only protest in ways YOU approve of.

[Jac de Molay]

Womens basketball.....