Resistance to the French threat mounting!

[DinoDoc]

UR: IIRC, Iraq attacked first
By late '79, the Iranian government was pushing the Kurds and Shiite populations of Iraq into revolt against Hussein and operatives serving Iran were trying to assassinate senior officials in the Iraqi government. Border clashes, largely started by Iran, were also becoming more and more frequent. It was against this backdrop that Hussein launched a limited war against Iran.

[Spiffor]

Fine, I had just calculated Portugal's GDP was about 2,893 $ per capita in 1981 according to the same sources
Greece 4,620 $
Syria had 1,690 $
Switzerland 15,460 $

But I wouldn't tell 1981's Portugal or Greece "*had* a high living standard". I may be wrong though. A Greek could testify here.

[Comrade Tribune]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Fine, I had just calculated Portugal's GDP was about 2,893 $ per capita in 1981 according to the same sources
Greece 4,620 $
Syria had 1,690 $
Switzerland 15,460 $

But I wouldn't tell 1981's Portugal or Greece "*had* a high living standard". I may be wrong though. A Greek could testify here.

I think we have reached agreement here. Iraq didn´t have the living standard of Switzerland -no one has! -, but for a developing country, being comparable even to Portugal is quite good.

Saddam did make some wrong decisions, but his being depicted as *all* bad is just another US disinfo (and they didn´t depict him like that in the early 80s ).

Edit: And now we have even DinoDoc downplaying Saddam´s aggression against Iran. I´d say public opinion is visibly shifting toward Saddam, and this is just Apolyton.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Comrade Tribune
Edit: And now we have even DinoDoc downplaying Saddam´s aggression against Iran.

Speaking truth to idiots would be closer to the truth.

[The Mad Monk]

Originally posted by Lung


Racism is just a certain type of prejudice. Okay, so you're prejudiced, then In any case, prejudice is just as bad as racism because hating someone on the basis of their race is not inherently worse than prejudice for any other reason. Intolerance of people based on other than their individual attributes and consequent discrimination is simply wrong. You've blatantly stated your hate of people based purely on their nationality.

Just because people hate Americans because you're american, doesn't mean that you have to do it. If it makes you feel better, i acknowledge that certain Apolytoners who claim the moral high ground are guilty of exactly that.

I just think that your stance doesn't do you or your countrymen any favours by adding to their prejudice against Americans.

Read his post again; "prejudice" is when you pre-judge someone when you know nothing about them -- this has nothing to do with what Lancer posted. American's increasing ire with the French is the direct result of French diplomatic stances that most of us find unfathomable, except as possibly a need to be annoying.

[Spiffor]

As a French, I have several times been insulted by Lancer (while I don't think my behaviour is any offensive), even though I have no part in the decision process of my government. I call this "prejudice" against me and against my people.
Lancer is indeed developing a clear xenophoby against the French, by hating the French people and confusing them with the French government.
Unless he is fooling around from the beginning, but I doubt it more every day

[The Mad Monk]

People shouldn't be insulted for speaking their minds in a civil manner.

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by Lancer
"Racist"

I'm white, French people are white...

Nice try Lung, but wierd.

Lancer, why do you think it's ok to hate French people just because they are the same color as you? That is what's wierd. I don't know if you hate other rascists or not, but how would that be worse than hating people because of their nationality?

[Lancer]

I might say, 'blondes are hot'. That doesn't mean that I think all blondes are hot. It is a generalization.

So, I not only don't like France I don't like the French. That doesn't mean that there aren't some that I would like, in fact I'm sure there are. I had spent a few days drinking beer with a French Canadian in the Philippines. Nice guy, we got along well. We both married Filipinas so we have something in common.

I have been subject to prejudice against Americans in both France and Germany. In Germany a friend and I were refused service in a bar because we were American soldiers. In France, as a child, my family were being talked about in a nasty way by a couple of French in a hotel. My father turned around and told them to "shut up, you French ****s"...but did it in fluent French.

The guy was a mean SOB and he had big brass balls.

The French don't like Americans, the French just aren't honest enough to admit it. I have no such qualms.

[jolair]

Originally posted by Lancer
I might say, 'blondes are hot'. That doesn't mean that I think all blondes are hot. It is a generalization.

So, I not only don't like France I don't like the French. That doesn't mean that there aren't some that I would like, in fact I'm sure there are. I had spent a few days drinking beer with a French Canadian in the Philippines. Nice guy, we got along well. We both married Filipinas so we have something in common.

I have been subject to prejudice against Americans in both France and Germany. In Germany a friend and I were refused service in a bar because we were American soldiers. In France, as a child, my family were being talked about in a nasty way by a couple of French in a hotel. My father turned around and told them to "shut up, you French ****s"...but did it in fluent French.

The guy was a mean SOB and he had big brass balls.

The French don't like Americans, the French just aren't honest enough to admit it. I have no such qualms.

American soldiers are not wellcome in spain also...so if anytime you come to spain first start to learn spanish if you want to say "shut up, you spanish ****s"...in fluent spanish.

[Lung]

Originally posted by The Mad Monk


Read his post again; "prejudice" is when you pre-judge someone when you know nothing about them -- this has nothing to do with what Lancer posted. American's increasing ire with the French is the direct result of French diplomatic stances that most of us find unfathomable, except as possibly a need to be annoying.

He's still pre-judging someone because of their nationality. He has extended his generalisation to include French as individuals. That makes it just as bad as being racist.

If you hate a black man because he's gay, does that mean it's not as bad as hating him because he's black?? There's nothing inherently worse than hating someone because of their colour than because of their sexuality/choice of car/liking of donuts/aversion to alcohol, etc. That would only to serve to make it okay to hate someone you've never met for any excuse you can think of.

I know someone who was refused service in a pub because of the football jumper he wore. Apparently, because he wasn't discriminated against because of his race/gender/sexuality/creed, it was okay

Anyone who's been excluded from a sporting team because they were different in any way can testify to the fact that being discriminated against for any reason is wrong.

Any way you look at it, you're discriminating for reasons other than one's personal attributes. According to your own example, if a French person meets you, they have to prove themselves worthy of avoiding your scorn as opposed to some american who is automatically accepted by you.

Any way you look at it, it's unjustifiable. How can you claim that you're going to war for altruistic purposes when you despise one of the antagonists? Why should anyone trust your motives? The whole point of this is that you end up going to war because you hate the French who are supporting Iraq. French people earn your dislike while Iraqis earn your wrath! Where is the fairness in that? If you're not in it solely to depose Saddam, then you have no moral grounds whatsoever. Your reasons just do not survive scrutiny