Whatever is wrong with #2: Calling it a War for Oil

[Comrade Tribune]

Originally posted by JohnT
*JohnT snatches back tasty morsel before the evil troll snaps at his hand*

Yummy! You quoted my -very much to the point, as usual!- post. Without even finding an argument, any argument, to counter what I said. Now, that tasted delicious.

[The Vagabond]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Whatever is wrong with #2: Calling it a War for Oil

Originally posted by Comrade Tribune
Sounds eerily like Hitler. He always mumbled about survival, too, while threatening the national survival of *everybody else*.

Superficial analogy. The US is far from being Nazi Germany, and circumstances are different.

[JohnT]

Originally posted by Comrade Tribune


Yummy! You quoted my -very much to the point, as usual!- post. Without even finding an argument, any argument, to counter what I said. Now, that tasted delicious.

Because I thought the obvious answer was too obvious... that there are more Jews in the US than in Israel.

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
One of the reasons for that war was that the US was fearful that other states might conclude that aggression pays and we would have to deal with more wars of conquest.

So do you want to say that oil was not the primary reason for the first gulf war? What you mention is of course a serious reason too, but it would never be such a big deal if it was not for oil.

[Comrade Tribune]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Whatever is wrong with #2: Calling it a War for Oil

Originally posted by The Vagabond
Superficial analogy. The US is far from being Nazi Germany, and circumstances are different.

"To initiate a war of aggression is the supreme international crime, differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole." — Judgment of the International War Crimes Tribunal at Nuremberg, 1946

[Comrade Tribune]

Originally posted by JohnT
Because I thought the obvious answer was too obvious... that there are more Jews in the US than in Israel.

Yes, and that exactly is my point: That the interests of Israel seem to matter more to many of them than the interests of their (non-Jewish) fellow Americans.

Let alone US reputation and Allies.

Noticing this fact makes me a conspiracist in the somewhat dimly-lit mental world of Dino.

[The Vagabond]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Whatever is wrong with #2: Calling it a War for Oil

Originally posted by Comrade Tribune
"To initiate a war of aggression is the supreme international crime, differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole." — Judgment of the International War Crimes Tribunal at Nuremberg, 1946

The war on Iraq has been going for a long time actually. So what is going to happen is not an agression out of the blue. If it were, it would be a different story.

[Spiffor]

I think the war in Iraq has partly to do with securing a reliable and immediately exploitable source of oil in prevision of the next step of war against terrorism : Saudi Arabia (there'll be at least high tensions between the Saudi family and the US once Iraq is under US' control). The crisis in Venezuela makes this priority even more important, since another reliable source of oil for the US has been lost for now.

However, oil is not the first or only reason. I agree with almost everything Ge and MtG wrote in this thread. It's notably about testing a new power politics, and prolonging US supremacy on this critical region of the world.

Also, the US needs allies. According to Nye's analysys (no, I don't mean Notyoueither ), the US must maintain solid alliances to relieve it from being the only world policeman - the goal would be to be "sheriff of the posse". If the US manages to get its NATO allies to go there, it could spare much money for the military.
Moreover, the Euros have a big role in peacebuilding after the war, which is not as satisfactory in elections as cool action on TV (i.e. war), but demands huge amounts of money as well.

[Comrade Tribune]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Whatever is wrong with #2: Calling it a War for Oil

Originally posted by The Vagabond
The war on Iraq has been going for a long time actually. So what is going to happen is not an agression out of the blue. If it were, it would be a different story.

Yes, Bush and gang *are* already guilty. Now when are we going to see them brought to trial?

[Comrade Tribune]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Moreover, the Euros have a big role in peacebuilding after the war, which is not as satisfactory in elections as cool action on TV (i.e. war), but demands huge amounts of money as well.

God forbid! They shouldn´t drop a single Euro down that dump. US break it, US buy it!

Spiffor, sometimes your ideas are worse than those of our most esteemed American friends.

[Spiffor]

I am against the war for the very same reasons I am for an active rebuilding, led by Europe :

- I care about civilian deaths (yes, pro-peace people aren't necessarily Saddam-apologists looking for fruitous oil deals ), and Iraq will be even more in shambles after the war than it is now, which means even more misery, famine and disease.

- I care about thwarting terrorism and support for fundamentalism. While misery isn't the only reason for people to support fundamentalism, it is an important reason, and we should adress it since we can.

If you're anti-Amercian enough to let millions Iraqi die, I wonder how you can picture yourself as a "comrade"

[Comrade Tribune]

Originally posted by Spiffor
I am against the war for the very same reasons I am for an active rebuilding, led by Europe :

- I care about civilian deaths (yes, pro-peace people aren't necessarily Saddam-apologists looking for fruitous oil deals ), and Iraq will be even more in shambles after the war than it is now, which means even more misery, famine and disease.

- I care about thwarting terrorism and support for fundamentalism. While misery isn't the only reason for people to support fundamentalism, it is an important reason, and we should adress it since we can.

If you're anti-Amercian enough to let millions Iraqi die, I wonder how you can picture yourself as a "comrade"

Total rubbish and muddled thinking, the like I wouldn´t even expect from DinoDoc.

First of all, if Euros were so idiotic to promise to pick up (a large) part of the costs, this *guarantees* that the war will happen.

That it *may* become jolly expensive is the only *American* reason *against* it.

So you are either inept, or, in an underhanded way, arguing *for* war.

If support for fundamentalism increases, great. It is not Europe the fundamentalists have a little problem with. I am all for America harvesting the whirlwind after sowing the storm. We have absolutely no business to try prevent that.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Comrade Tribune
If support for fundamentalism increases, great. It is not Europe the fundamentalists have a little problem with. I am all for America harvesting the whirlwind after sowing the storm. We have absolutely no business to try prevent that.

Then I guess you are about as bloodthirty and short-sighted as the average pro-war Yankee. Maybe even more. Your hate for America is blurring whatever sympathy for your fellow human you can have

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Spiffor
If you're anti-Amercian enough to let millions Iraqi die, I wonder how you can picture yourself as a "comrade"

I didn't call him a paranoid, raving moron for no reason.

[JohnT]

Spiffor, you misunderstand CT. He believes that his hate for America is showing love and sympathy for his fellow humans.