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Whatever is wrong with #2: Calling it a War for Oil

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  • Whatever is wrong with #2: Calling it a War for Oil

    I can't see why this is so incredible. Litsen.

    Rumsfeld, Rice and the rest of the Washington foreign policy elite are all highly trained academics in the Realist school, or at least have such people working for them. Part of the basic structure of this school is that domestic policy is secondary in ensuring the survival of the state to foreign policy, and that States should only do what is in their self-interest to survive in a competetive IR environment.

    Therefore the "saving the Iraqi people" excuse is clearly entirely irrelevant. Also, most foreign-policy analysts would agree that Iraq poses no immediate threat to the US itself. Only long-tern, regional strategic interests are at stake.

    The only reason anyone could want to ensure US strategic interests are achieved in the infertile, low-population tactically unimportant appendix that is the middle east is Oil. Certainly every time a major power in the 20th century has made a grab for the middle east it's been about getting to the Oil*, and even if the US doesn't need it they certainly don't want potential future enemies getting to it.

    What's strange about that? It makes perfectly clear sense, and sure they're cutting a few corners here and there to make it sound snappier but it's hardly worse than many other euphemisms, from Affirmative Action to Pro-Life.

    *Except that one time it was about the Suez canal. Um.
    Världsstad - Dom lokala genrenas vän
    Mick102, 102,3 Umeå, Måndagar 20-21

  • #2
    If it's just about oil, damn the environmentalists and open up ANWAR. Given that the Iraqis ship most of their oil to Europe, one could concievably argue that you are conducting "Resistance For Oil."

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    • #3
      Originally posted by JohnT
      If it's just about oil, damn the environmentalists and open up ANWAR. Given that the Iraqis ship most of their oil to Europe, one could concievably argue that you are conducting "Resistance For Oil."
      So true... and it also seems you could call it "Resistance for illegal WOMD contracts because we are greedy and don't give a damn about anybody else"
      Keep on Civin'
      RIP rah, Tony Bogey & Baron O

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      • #4
        Re: Whatever is wrong with #2: Calling it a War for Oil

        Originally posted by Buck Birdseed
        I can't see why this is so incredible. Litsen.
        War for oil doesn't make any sense. Remove the sanctions and Baghdad would be over joyed to sell the stuff to us.
        I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
        For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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        • #5
          Well I don't see why it is that incredible as well...

          Resources are simply one of the most important factors of a successful state...

          Civilizations emerged due to the fact that certain groups controlled the bronze traderoutes etc.. same thing later with iron...

          Why do you think Athens became so wealthy, despite the fact that Attica has the most infertile soil of Greece? They simply had the silver mines in the Laurium (IIRC) mountains nearby...

          Success is based on the possession of resources!! Saudi Arabia is rich because of its oil!

          I mean are you so naive that you cannot see that these oil deposits would be very handy for the US? They don't want to be dependant on other countries, and keep in control of the world, so that alone is reason enough to get that oil...


          War for oil doesn't make any sense. Remove the sanctions and Baghdad would be over joyed to sell the stuff to us.
          the keyword is "sell" here.. it would still make the US dependant on other countries
          "An archaeologist is the best husband a women can have; the older she gets, the more interested he is in her." - Agatha Christie
          "Non mortem timemus, sed cogitationem mortis." - Seneca

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          • #6
            "I mean are you so naive that you cannot see that these oil deposits would be very handy for the US? They don't want to be dependant on other countries, and keep in control of the world, so that alone is reason enough to get that oil..."

            And are you so naive as to not realize that currently, Europe is the largest benefactor of Saddams largesse, therefore rendering your governments arguments re: "no more war" to be no less than a self-serving lie?

            To quote my grandfather: tsk-tsk.

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            • #7
              Hey Snapcase.

              Why not consider the arguments put forward for war first by the US and UK (interesting articles in the latest article of the Economist if you fancy reading something that isn' just left-wing trash).

              If these arguments are satisfactory, then if oil IS an issue, this can only be another reason for war.

              If the US are after securing cheaper oil, then the only point in doing this this is if it would help its economy. You help the US economy and you help the world economy. The main reason for sluggish world growth is sluggish American growth.

              Cut off a source of oil for the US and you are harming developing nations. One of the greatest examples of cutting off your nose to spite your face in the political world are the left-wingers chanting against war "because it's about oil".

              Wake up.
              www.my-piano.blogspot

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              • #8
                Incidentally, I posted a realist's opinion on the coming Iraq war awhile ago in a thread called "Unnecessary War?".
                I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

                Comment


                • #9
                  War for oil doesn't make any sense. Remove the sanctions and Baghdad would be over joyed to sell the stuff to us.
                  I doubt that he would probably put the screw to us and charge much higher prices. And which is easier to control a nutty dictator or your own puppet government.
                  When one is someone, why should one want to be something?
                  ~Gustave Flaubert

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                  • #10
                    nd are you so naive as to not realize that currently, Europe is the largest benefactor of Saddams largesse?
                    France and Russia are the largest benefactors... and besides, we haven't got any troubles with being dependant on other countries, i don't give a **** anyway...

                    to quote your grandfather: tsk, tsk
                    "An archaeologist is the best husband a women can have; the older she gets, the more interested he is in her." - Agatha Christie
                    "Non mortem timemus, sed cogitationem mortis." - Seneca

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                    • #11
                      "Given that the Iraqis ship most of their oil to Europe"

                      "Europe is the largest benefactor of Saddams largesse?"

                      Fascinating. Source? (And I mean statistics, not editorials)
                      “Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Trajanus
                        the keyword is "sell" here.. it would still make the US dependant on other countries
                        Now you're just being stupid to the nth degree if you can not show any credible source that says the US plans to annex Iraq.

                        I doubt that he would probably put the screw to us and charge much higher prices.

                        I doubt he would as well.
                        I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                        For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          If the US are after securing cheaper oil, then the only point in doing this this is if it would help its economy. You help the US economy and you help the world economy. The main reason for sluggish world growth is sluggish American growth.

                          Well well, time for you to wake up I reckon. so we should give oil control in your hands, is that what you are saying, to give you more power? right? or what do you mean then..

                          Besides, perhaps you haven't noticed, but there just miiiight be other reasons for your sluggish economy... something Bush is absolutely not concerned with, I have the impression.. all he does is bark about a war on iraq, with a few tax cuts in between.... oh yeah that's some real management on helping your economy!

                          Also, if you were allowed to better your economy, and get oil very cheaply, then why doesn't Germany, and the UK and China etc don't invade other countries to get their oil cheaper?? Becuase they have more common sense i guess!
                          "An archaeologist is the best husband a women can have; the older she gets, the more interested he is in her." - Agatha Christie
                          "Non mortem timemus, sed cogitationem mortis." - Seneca

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                          • #14
                            Now you're just being stupid to the nth degree if you can not show any credible source that says the US plans to annex Iraq.
                            What the bloody hell does this got to do with it? Who said anything about annexing Iraq?
                            "An archaeologist is the best husband a women can have; the older she gets, the more interested he is in her." - Agatha Christie
                            "Non mortem timemus, sed cogitationem mortis." - Seneca

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                            • #15
                              Well if it is about Oil, why didn't we keep it when we liberated Kuwait?
                              http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

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