Whatever is wrong with #2: Calling it a War for Oil

[Ming]

Originally posted by Trajanus
Also, if you were allowed to better your economy, and get oil very cheaply, then why doesn't Germany, and the UK and China etc don't invade other countries to get their oil cheaper?? Becuase they have more common sense i guess!

Nahhhh... Germany found a better way... just sell Iraq illegal means of constructing WOMD for big bucks

[Ned]

The problem is that Saddam can finance gigantic armies with oil money. This makes him a threat to take the whole region by force. He has actually stated this as his ultimate goal, IIRC. With the whole of the region's oil under his control, he then becomes a threat to Europe and the USA. As well, Israel is toast.

[Traianvs]

Well if it is about Oil, why didn't we keep it when we liberated Kuwait?

Because that was at that time not the goal of the mission...
The thing was to liberate Kuwait... that's to what I have heard also the reason why they didn't invade Baghdad.. It was not part of their mission.
At least so I was told.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Trajanus
Who said anything about annexing Iraq?

You did when you said that the US didn't want to buy oil from other countries because it would make it dependent on them hence your objection to the word sell.

[Traianvs]

The problem is that Saddam can finance gigantic armies with oil money

Gigantic armies... armies of no worth you mean... on top of that the morale of the regular troops is so low they will hardly fight anyway, at least with the absolutely crappy equipment they have..

Also all his wars up till now were not a success, which already shows that he is an incapable stupid moron.. the war on Iraq for example was a fiasco! Against the advice of his officers he made decisions that proved desastrous to the Iraqis...

Clearly he is a bad military leader and I for one wouldn't fear him too much... A big army doesn't necessarily mean it's a good one

[Solly]

Trajanus,

Well well, time for you to wake up I reckon. so we should give oil control in your hands, is that what you are saying, to give you more power? right? or what do you mean then..

What I am saying is that the case for war has been made, If oil is a small factor that might help the US then it only increases the case for war - so effectively those who are against war are arguing against themselves.

Nice doublethink.

Besides, perhaps you haven't noticed, but there just miiiight be other reasons for your sluggish economy...

Britain is one of the fastest growing large economies right now, thank you. And yes, there are other reasons, but a pick-up in American growth levels increases world growth levels, helping the UK..

World growth grows, then developing countries grow faster. Is this something you are against?

Also, if you were allowed to better your economy, and get oil very cheaply, then why doesn't Germany, and the UK and China etc don't invade other countries to get their oil cheaper??

If they had a reason for attacking a country, like the US has agaisnt Iraq, then any additional by-product of such a war is to their beneift. So what?

The whole "it's all about oil" crap is nothing but blatant anti-Americanism.

[Traianvs]

You did when you said that the US didn't want to buy oil from other countries because it would make it dependent on them hence your objection to the word sell.

I never mentioned annexing... What they could do is, like now with the Saudis, have very interesting deals concerning the sell of oil... So beneficial deals for the US, I'm not so stupid as to think America would actually own the country, lol

[Traianvs]

World growth grows, then developing countries grow faster.

Yeah true, but a slight correction: World growth grows, then "the top class of the" developing countries grow faster

The wealth of western nations has increased in the last decades, but you think the wealth of an average Sierra Leonian has increased? I don't think so..

Britain is one of the fastest growing large economies right now, thank you

Ah well I thought you were American.... lemme rephrase that then: Besides, perhaps you haven't noticed, but there just miiiight be other reasons for "the American" sluggish economy...

[Solly]

but you think the wealth of an average Sierra Leonian has increased? I don't think so..

3% growth in 2001.

[Traianvs]

3% growth in one year, big deal for a regular Sierra Leonian, they have nothing anyway, everything is in the greedy hands of the upper class... the growth is actually a reflection on how they are faring, not a simple farmer...

This is pointless anyway.. bye

[JohnT]

Originally posted by HershOstropoler
"Given that the Iraqis ship most of their oil to Europe"

"Europe is the largest benefactor of Saddams largesse?"

Fascinating. Source? (And I mean statistics, not editorials)

The source is my trolling spirit. But you are right... a "back of the envelope" analysis shows that in 2002, 20% of the US crude imported from the Gulf comes from Iraq, whereas Europe gains 10% of its Persian Gulf oil from Iraq.

My apologies. Usually I try not to get involved in these debates because I tend to do it backwards - make my point, then research to see if it's true. Perhaps I've been on these boards too long and everybody else's bad habits have corrupted me ...

Sources: US Oil Import Statistics. PDF document.

European Oil Import Statistics. MS Excel Document.

Do note that the European statistics end in October, and the US statistics end in November 2002 so a direct comparison between totals isn't possible (I just deducted the US November statistics to get the above figures). I will note that EU Iraqi oil imports have been trending upward since April, while the US trends have been downward. Somewhat.

[JohnT]

But then, if the US is already getting Iraqi oil (20% of US Persian Gulf imports), then that doesn't really buttress the argument that the US is doing this to get their hands on Iraqi oil.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Trajanus
What they could do is, like now with the Saudis, have very interesting deals concerning the sell of oil...

That would still involve the "evil" word buying and according to you make them dependent on Iraq.

[Solly]

Originally posted by Trajanus


3% growth in one year, big deal for a regular Sierra Leonian, they have nothing anyway, everything is in the greedy hands of the upper class... the growth is actually a reflection on how they are faring, not a simple farmer...

This is pointless anyway.. bye

Over a decade adds more than a third to income.

[Traianvs]

arf, no, I mean, they would have much influence on the democratic regime that will be installed there, they get better deals etc, so they won't be dependant on other countries, as they control the regime anyway, to some extent of course, not entirely



right now