The FBI wants to talk to you = handcuffed for hours in JFK

[Lancer]

http://www.fbi.gov/

Email them. Tell then if they come to Poly they'll be banned, threads closed, anarchy and mayhem...

[mrmitchell]

Should I be scared that, although I don't smoke any of it (really!), I mention pot at least once a day???

Should they have some 'reasonable suspiscion', my house could easily be entered and they could contort any **** into a connection to terrorists. "Oh, here's a shirt, it says it's made in...well...the first part of the country is rubbed out. It just says "stan." Stan must mean Afghanistan! Or Pakistan! Or Terroristan!" "There isn't a country called Terroristan." "Shut your mouth." (Agent applies more layers of duct tape.)

BTW, don't trust the government on following the Constitution. As John Locke (or one of those guys) said, rights never actually come from the government. And so far in 100% of the recent cases it's been true. Why would a government limit its own power?

[Joseph]

The story did say that the Prop. Knew the N17 back in the 60s. My guess would be, they the FBI wanted to know if he the Prop. had any recent meeting with the N17 guy.

[Bereta_Eder]

A bit difficult to do that since the N17 guy is in jail.


Knowing someone 40 years ago when you were both students at Paris and then that someone becoming a terrorist isn't enough evidence to convict you, I would think.

And certaintly isn't enough to be handcuffed and made to wait for 4 hours in what he said were unacceptable conditions.

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by DuncanK
This guy got lucky. I think if he were of Middle Eastern decent he would have been detained for maybe a month or two. That's what's going on in the US.

That guy (university proffessor) said that what happened to him is unacceptable not because he is not muslim, black, a philippino woman or unemployed. It was tragig because it can happen to anyone.
----
So you may want to think about that.

He also said he'd like to know the fate of all those people he left behind when he left that were in chains.


After they let him go he contacted the Greek consulate, he got immidiate diplomatic immunity, his american collegeues at the University of New York expressed their shock and sadness for their government violates its own values and he refused to meet the FBI again. He left the US with Greek diplomatic escort and the consulate let its American counterpart know what they were thinking of this screw up.

I doubt he'll be returning to the US any time soon,

and about what happened he said that it was either fascism or schizophrenia...

BTW, he was invited to take part in the University of New York gala about philosophy.

Now this whole treatment of him may seem like nothing to you, but where I come from this is a total violation of any even shred of civil rights and it IS prosecuted in a court of law.

Legal advisors told him that because of the "patriot act" he can't have an easy case, so I don't know if he will go ahead and press charges.

Also you might want to tell your FBI and your CIA to coordinate a bit more closely. They seemed really confused in their mess up.

Some of you might call me a eurowimp, but if you think that's "whimping" then you my dear friends are near the state of fascism.

[DuncanK]

Chill. All I said was that he was lucky to only be detained for a few hours when others are being detained for much longer because of their race.

[Bereta_Eder]

That's for you Dunkan, with love


'First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist, so I said nothing. Then they came for the Social Democrats, but I was not a Social Democrat, so I did nothing. Then came the trade unionists, but I was not a trade unionist. And then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew, so I did nothing. Then when they came for me, there was no one left to stand up for me.'

Pastor Niemöller

[axi]

OK MarkG and paiktis, I'll play. First consider the extent at which people all over the world are watched by the secret services. It is well known that in Greece, if your family has a tradition in being communist or whatever, all family members have their own file with the State Security. Since these things circulate among the secret services, it is plausible that you may be detained in the USA because your grandfather fought in the Civil War.

Kostas Agapiou is one of the people arrested for participating in ELA. He was active against the junta, so the junta kept a file on him, which was reducted, as it seems, by one of the worst juntist cronies (can't remember his name). When the conservative government came after the junta, it kept the file and enlarged it with fresh material. They didn't care that they based their opinion of the "suspect" on stuff that may have been forged by the juntists: suspects are always suspects and they become "usual suspects", until some agancy has to find someone "guilty" really fast, and then all that stuff in the files turn into "evidence" and a case is constructed out of thin air. That's why until now most people accused for terrorism were eventually discharged: agents have a nasty habit of pulling their "evidence" and "witnesses" out of their ass (probably a leftover from the old days, when they didn't have to try much to convince a court).

As for the illegal detention: do you think that in Greece people don't get illegally detained, or when they are detained the police act like gentlemen? There are hundrends of cases of police brutality out there:

- A citizen (with origins form Albania, but still a full citizen) was arrested for not carrying his ID. He was not allowed to procure it, and was imprisoned for breaking the anti-immigration law. He was inprisoned for six months and they would not release him albeit all efforts from lawyers etc, until there was goverment intervention.

- A woman who was wanted ten years ago in Italy for helping a terrorist group, had been tried there and had been found innocent, has been arrested on the premise of the Interpol warrant that had been issued back then, of whose expiry the Greek authorities have never been officially informed. She is bound to be extradited to Italy and they claim that she is the one that has to prove the expiry of the warrant, which is a bureaucratic process and takes time. For the time being, she is behind bars.

From the 24 people arrested during the Athens F15 demo, 3 (2 men, 1 woman) are accused of felonies and one was sent to prison. These people have been arrested hours after the violent events and in places far from the US embassy, with trivial evidence.

The following stuff i fond in Athens Indymedia

Ôïõò êáôçãïñïýí ãéá óýóôáóç, óõììïñßá, äéáôÜñáîç, åîýâñéóç, äéáêåêñéìÝíåò öèïñÝò êáé íüìï ðåñß üðëùí. Ïé êáôçãïñßåò åîåéäéêåýïíôáé êáé êáôÜ "ïìÜäåò": óå 4 áðïäßäåôáé üôé óõììåôåß÷áí óå âéáéïðñáãßåò êáôÜ ôçò áóôõíïìßáò óôç Óôáäßïõ êáé Êáñáãåþñãç Óåñâßáò êáé ðñïîÝíçóáí öèïñÝò, üðùò óôçí ÅèíéêÞ ÔñÜðåæá (Óôáäßïõ êáé Êïëïêïôñþíç), êáé óå 5 üôé óõììåôåß÷áí óå âéáéïðñáãßåò êáôÜ ôçò áóôõíïìßáò Ýîù áðü ôçí ðñåóâåßá ôùí ÇÐÁ. Ï Ýíáò áðü ôïõò ôñåéò ðïõ äéþêåôáé êáé ãéá êáêïõñãÞìáôá êáôçãïñåßôáé ãéá âéáéïðñáãßåò êáôÜ ôçò áóôõíïìßáò Ýîù áðü ôç ðñåóâåßá ôçò Ì. Âñåôáíßáò. Êáíåßò ó÷åäüí áðü ôïõò êáôçãïñïýìåíïõò äåí óõíåëÞöèç óôï ÷þñï êáé óôï ÷ñüíï üðïõ ôåëÝóèçêáí ôá áäéêÞìáôá ãéá ôá ïðïßá êáôçãïñåßôáé! ¼ëïé ó÷åäüí óõíåëÞöèçóáí áëëïý ðïëý áñãüôåñá Þ ...êáé íùñßôåñá áð' üôáí óõíÝâçóáí áõôÜ ãéá ôá ïðïßá êáôçãïñïýíôáé! Ãéá ôïõò 4 ðïõ êáôçãïñïýíôáé ãéá ôçí Óôáäßïõ áíáöÝñåôáé -óôçí Ýêèåóç óýëëçøçò- üôé óõíåëÞöèçóáí óôï óôáèìü ôïõ ìåôñü ôïõ ÓõíôÜãìáôïò óôéò 2.15! þñá ðïõ áêüìá äåí åß÷å óõìâåß êáíÝíá åðåéóüäéï... Áõôüò ðïõ êáôçãïñåßôáé ãéá ôçí ÂñåôáíéêÞ ðñåóâåßá óõíåëÞöèç óôá íïóïêïìåßï ôïõ Åõáããåëéóìïý! ʼëëïé ðïõ êáôçãïñïýíôáé ãéá ôçí áìåñéêÜíéêç ðñåóâåßá óõíåëÞöèçóáí óôç Ë. ÁëåîÜíäñáò! ¸íáò ðïõ óõíåëÞöèç êáôÜ ôçí åðÝëáóç ôùí ÌÁÔ êáôÜ äéáäçëùôþí ìðñïóôÜ óôï ÐÜñêï Åëåõèåñßáò êáôçãïñåßôáé ìå âÜóç ìáñôõñßá ìðÜôóïõ üôé äÞèåí ôïí áíáãíþñéóå ìÝóá óå ðëÞèïò áôüìùí ðïõ åêôüîåõáí áíôéêåßìåíá êáôÜ ôùí áóôõíïìéêþí. Ôá ìüíï "óôïé÷åßï" ðïõ õðÜñ÷åé ãéá üëïõò ôïõò êáôçãïñïýìåíïõò åßíáé ôÝôïéåò ìáñôõñßåò "áíáãíþñéóçò" áðü ìðÜôóïõò.

Ëßãï ðñßí ôéò ôÝóóåñéò ôï ìåóçìÝñé ôïõ ÓáââÜôïõ êáé åíþ ôï óõëëáëçôÞñéï äéáäñáìáôéæüôáí äõíáìéêÜ, åãþ ìáæß ìå Ýíá ößëï ìïõ Ý÷ïíôáò áðï÷ùñÞóåé êÜìðïóç þñá áðï ôïí ÷þñï ôçò ðïñåßáò, óõëëáìâáíüìáóôå áðï ìáëÜêåò ôçò áóöÜëåéáò ãéá íá ìåôáâïýìå óôá êåíôñéêÜ óôçí ÃÁÄÁ ãéá äéêáóôéêÞ åîáêñßâùóç.Êé åíþ ðåñéìÝíáìå ôá ìðáôóéêÜ ðïõ èá ìáò ìåôÝöåñáí, Üëëá äýï ðáéäéÜ óõëëáìâÜíïíôáé ìáæß ìáò êé ç ðáñÝá ôùí äýï ãßíåôáé ðáñÝá ôùí ôåóóÜñùí óõëëçöèÝíôùí.Ïé äéáäéêáóßåò åßíáé ðÜíù êÜôù ãíùóôÝò óå üëïõò. Ìáò ìåôÝöåñáí óôçí áóöÜëåéá, ìáò áíÝâáóáí ùò "íÝïõò ôñïìïêñÜôåò" óôïí Ýêôï êáé ôï "ãëåíôé" ôùí ìðÜôóùí åíáíôßùí ìáò îåêßíçóå.
Äåí ðñüëáâå êáíåßò ìáò íá âãÜëåé êïõâÝíôá.¸ôóé ãéá ôï êáëùóüñéóìá åéóðñÜîáìå üëïé ìáò áðï ìßá êëùôóéÜ êé áöïý ìáò ãïíÜôéóáí óáí óêëÜâïõò áðáéôþíôáò íá êïéôÜìå ìüíï ôï ðÜôùìá (ãéá íá ìçí äïýìå ðïéá åßíáé ôá ìïõíüðáíá ðïõ ìáò âáñÜíå) Üñ÷éóáí ôéò ãíùóôÝò åõãåíéêÝò êïõâåíôïýëåò ôïõò....Âñéóßäéá,ôáðåéíùôéêÜ ó÷üëéá,áðåéëÝò,êïìðëåîéêÝò äçëþóåéò ðïõ åêöñÜæïõí ôçí ìáëÜêõíóç ôïõ åãêåöÜëïõ ôïõò ê.ô.ë....
Óôïí ÷þñï ðïõ ìáò åß÷áí Ýöåñíáí óõíÝ÷åéá ðáéäéÜ ôá ïðïßá ôá "õðïäÝ÷ïíôáí" ìå ôïí ãíùóôü êáé ðñïáíáöåñèÝíôá ôñüðï ó÷çìáôßæïíôáò Ýôóé Ýíá "ãêñïõðÜêé" áðï 22 Üôïìá-ðñïóáãùãÝò.Ìáò ðáñÝôáîáí üëïõò ôïí Ýíáí äßðëá óôïí Üëëï êáôá ìÞêïò åíüò óêïôåéíïý ìáêñüóôåíïõ äéáäñüìïõ üðïõ ãéá 3 þñåò ìáò åß÷áí üëïõò ìå ôï êåöÜëé óôïí ôïß÷ï åíþ åêåßíïé ðåñéðïëïýóáí áðï ðßóù ìáò ñß÷íïíôáò óå üëïõò ìáò ôéò áðáñáßôçôåò "øéëÝò"-÷ïíôñÝò êáé öõóéêÜ óõíå÷ßæïíôáò ôïí ëåêôéêü øõ÷ïëïãéêü ðüëåìï.
Ãéá ôïõò 9 áðï ôïõò 22 ç ðñïóáãùãÞ ðáñÝìåéíå ðñïóáãùãÞ. Ãéá ôïõò õðüëïéðïõò 13 üìùò ç ðñïóáãùãÞ ìåôáôñÜðçêå êáôÜ "ìáãéêü" ôñüðï óå êñÜôçóç ìå êáôçãïñßåò ðïõ âáóßæïíôáí óå êáôáèÝóåéò-óêåõùñßåò ôùí ìðÜôóùí ðïõ óõíÝëáâáí ôïí êáèÝíá áðï åìÜò.
Ôá ðáéäéÜ ðïõ ðáñÝìåéíáí ìÝóá ðÝñáóáí üëá áðï åéóáããåëÝá.Óå 11 áðáããÝëèçêáí êáôçãïñßåò óå âáèìü ðëçììåëÞìáôïò åíþ óôïõò Üëëïõò 2 óå âáèìü êáêïõñãÞìôïò êáé ðëçììåëÞìáôïò .ÓõíïëéêÜ 3 áðï üëá ôá ðáéäéÜ åßíáé áêüìá ìÝóá êé áõôü åðåéäÞ æÞôçóáí ðáñÜôáóç ãéá ôçí áíÜêñéóÞ ôïõò.
Ãé áêüìç ìéá öïñÜ ç áõèáéñåóßá ôùí ìðÜôóùí,ç êáôÜñãçóç ôùí äéêáéùìÜôùí ôïõ êñáôïõìÝíïõ, ç êáôÜ÷ñçóç ôçò åîïõóßáò ôïõò ï Üêñáôïò êïìðëåîéóìüò ôïõò êáé ç ÷ïéñéíÞ õðüóôáóÞ ôïõò åðéâåâáéþèçêáí êáé óå üóïõò æÞóáìå üóá æÞóáìå êáôá ôçí äéÜñêåéá ôçò ðáñáìïíÞò ìáò óôçí ÃÁÄÁ áëëÜ êáé óå üóïõò óõíÝ÷éóáí íá âñßóêïíôáé Ýîù óôçí ðïñåßá.
Ìåôáîý ôùí üóùí áíáöÝñèçêáí ãéá ôá øõ÷ïëïãéêÜ êáé óùìáôéêÜ âáóáíéóôÞñéá ðïõ õðïóôÞêáìå óôçí áóöÜëåéá êáëü èá Þôáí íá áíáöÝñïõìå êáé êÜôé êùëïäÜ÷ôõëá ðïõ ÷þóáí ïé ìðÜôóïé óå êÜôé ðáéäéÜ, ôéò óöáëéÜñåò óôéò 2 êïðÝëåò ðïõ åß÷áí óõëëçöèåß (äåßãìá ôïõ "áíôñéóìïý" ôïõò) êáé ôï "prive" îýëï ðïõ ÷þóáí óå êÜôé ðáéäéÜ áöïý ðñþôá ôá áðïìüíùóáí óå îå÷ùñéóôü äùìÜôéï. ¸ñãá êáé óõìðåñéöïñÝò ôùí ìðÜôóùí ðïõ ìáò áíÜãïõí óôçí åðï÷Þ äéþîåùò ôùí áñéóôåñþí êáé ôçò ÷ïýíôáò. ÖáóéóôéêÝò åêäçëþóåéò êïìðëåîéóìïý áðï ÷ïéñéíÝò õðÜñîåéò....

ÊÏÕÑÁÃÉÏ ÓÔÁ ÐÁÉÄÉÁ ÐÏÕ ÅÉÍÁÉ ÁÊÏÌÁ ÌÅÓÁ


ÕÃ:Oé êáôçãïñßåò ôùí ðáéäéþí åßíáé äéÜöïñåò.¼ëïé êáôÝèåóáí óôïí áíáêñéôÞ êáé áöÝèçêáí åëåýèåñïé ìå êáèïñéóìÝíç äéêÜóéìï åêôüò áðï ôïõò 3 ðïõ åßíáé áêüìá ìÝóá (óõìðåñéëáìâáíïìÝíçò êáé ôçò êïðÝëáò) ïé ïðïßïé èá êáôáèÝóïõí üðùò åßðáìå ôçí ÔåôÜñôç.

Ìéá áðü ôéò êáôçãïñßåò åíáíôßïí ìéáò êïðÝëáò ðïõ óõíåëëÞöèç óôçí ðïñåßá åßíáé êáé áõôÞ:

"Óôïí ðáñáðÜíù ôüðï êáé ÷ñüíï, åêôüò áðü ôéò ðåñéðôþóåéò ôçò äõóöÞìçóçò êáé óõêïöáíôéêÞò äõóöÞìçóçò, ìå ðñüèåóç ðñïóÝâáëåò ôçí ôéìÞ Üëëïõ ìå Ýñãï ÷ùñßò ðñüêëçóç áðü ôïí ðáèüíôá, óõììåôåß÷åò äå óôçí ðñÜîç áõôÞ ìå ðåñéóóüôåñïõò áðü äõï. ÓõãêåêñéìÝíá, ÷ùñßò íá ðñïêëçèåßò áðü ôïõò Üíäñåò ôçò áóôõíïìéêÞò äýíáìçò, ðñïóÝâáëåò ôçí ôéìÞ ôïõò, åðéäåéêíýïíôáò ðñïêëçôéêÜ ôá ãåííçôéêÜ óïõ üñãáíá óå Ýíäåéîç êáôáöñüíçóçò ôçò çèéêÞò êáé êïéíùíéêÞò áîßáò ôïõò".

Óôçí áóöÜëåéá, ìåôáîý Üëëùí Üíäñåò ôçò áóôõíïìßáò ôçí áíÜãêáóáí íá ãäõèåß ìðñïóôÜ ôïõò êáé "Ýðáéæáí" êïõíþíôáò ôá ãêëïìð áíÜìåóá óôá ðüäéá ôçò.

[MarkG]

axi, i dont think the greek authorities ever setup such a plan(provide visa, wait on the arrival terminal, arrest, questioning, eventual release) though....

we're not talking about policy brutality, bureacratic nonsense or other "low level" issues.

please dont tell you're comparing in away the greek police and "secret" services with the fbi and the cia.... come on!

[Velociryx]

My stars! I just can't believe that in Greece, the cradle of democracy itself, such fascist festivities take place.

Pot calling the kettle black, eh paiktis ?

::shakes head::

This is hardly a problem unique to the USA, but of course, there's always that subset of the Euro population that just seems utterly convinced of their inherent superiority, and would rather point to examples of such shenanigans as these in the US, rather than looking at their own back yard....business as usual, then?

-=Vel=-

[axi]

MarkG is right. Compared to the Americans, our own agencies are amateurs. But that doesn't stop them from destroying people's lives, though.

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by paiktis22
That's for you Dunkan, with love


'First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist, so I said nothing. Then they came for the Social Democrats, but I was not a Social Democrat, so I did nothing. Then came the trade unionists, but I was not a trade unionist. And then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew, so I did nothing. Then when they came for me, there was no one left to stand up for me.'

Pastor Niemöller

I'm familiar with this quote. I like it very much. However, they didn't take him away. They just detained him for a few hours. It had nothing to do with his race or ideology. In fact, he wasn't taken away because he wasn't middle eastern. So I don't think this quote is all that relevant.... Good quote though. We should all be raising more stink about the people who are actually taken away.

edit: changed stick to stink (hmmmm.... maybe stick is better)

[MRT144]

crap, i got confused by the LACK of your antecedents, duncan!

[MarkG]

But that doesn't stop them from destroying people's lives, though.

sad but true. part of an organisation created by man to do good is also doing some bad. wow!
you know, there are also some greek politicians that LIE!

Compared to the Americans, our own agencies are amateurs.

so lets keep our focus to the professionals here, ok?

Pot calling the kettle black, eh paiktis ?

hardly. greek services never cooperated(huh! ) to bring a foreigner to the country for the sole purpose of questioning him! they never even thought of doing such a thing(they couldnt think of such a thing. if some of it's members did, they didnt bother to attempt to suggest to do it)
so lets not comparate oranges with apples Vel

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by MRT144
crap, i got confused by the LACK of your antecedents, duncan!

?


Still confused? About what?