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  • #61
    Slowwhand, comprehension problem:

    "Look at any day's postings"

    We were talking about newspaper reports and opinion pieces. That's why Buck asked for "columns", not poly "postings".
    “Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)

    Comment

    • #62
      HershOstropoler Settler

      I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

      Comment

      • #63
        Well, that's what I am....
        “Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)

        Comment

        • #64
          Ok, Hershy. Look at any day's newspaper.
          Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
          "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
          He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

          Comment

          • #65
            France and Germany whining.
            Brits blubbering about Bush leading Blair down the wrong path.
            Moron peaceniks in the USA, thinking this is a Bush/Blair problem.
            U.N. advocates, ignoring that Iraq today is the direct result of their dumbassness (Is that a word? It is now.)

            Ad nauseum.
            Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
            "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
            He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

            Comment

            • #66
              Originally posted by SlowwHand
              Ok, Hershy. Look at any day's newspaper.
              Ok, SlowwHead.

              The issue was antiamerican vitriol in european newspapers comparable to the level of antieuropean vitriol in american papers.

              Read it a couple of times. Try to get it.

              Then show me european newspapers with such content. I offered 3 links in this thread. Try them.
              “Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)

              Comment

              • #67
                I get it. You're wrong.
                Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
                "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
                He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

                Comment

                • #68
                  Sure, never get detracted by facts. Enjoy your happy little fantasyland as long as it lasts.
                  “Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)

                  Comment

                  • #69
                    What Vel said.

                    Oh, and yeah, the stuff quoted in the Guardian article, while certainly over-the-top, was pulled from columnists & editorials, etc. Print media's equivalent to "shock jocks" on radio. If that stuff was popping up in regular news stories, then I'd be appalled.

                    I can't think of examples of that type of garbage from opinion pieces accross the pond, but stories that are labelled as "news" (as opposed to "opinion") often have a heavy anti-US slant (particularly in publications such as The Guardian ). I think it was Roland I was discussing that with... Euros seem to want some opinion in their news, we tend to try and leave that for the editorials/columnists.

                    -Arrian
                    grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                    The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

                    Comment

                    • #70
                      That separation leads to a wide gap between news and opinion and allows opinion pieces that are just moronic. An opinionated presentation of the facts usually does not and cannot go that far.

                      Also, the separation is pretty much theoretical anyway. The simple decision on what to report and how already includes a bias; also news from not neutral sources transports an opinion anyway.
                      “Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)

                      Comment

                      • #71
                        I think it works surprisingly well. Distinguish between editorial, opinion, analysis and straight news. Most mainline US newspapers have been labeling their news like this for 5 or 10 years and it has been quite successful. (Everything except straight news is labeled.)
                        I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                        Comment

                        • #72
                          We like it our way, they like it their way. *shrug*

                          I like news articles that at least try to be impartial accounts of the facts. It's true that one cannot possibly remove all bias, since some of it isn't even deliberate/concious bias, but I want it at least attempted. Please note that this is why I cannot watch any of the network news broadcasts without changing the channel in disgust.

                          -Arrian
                          grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                          The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

                          Comment

                          • #73
                            That separation leads to a wide gap between news and opinion and allows opinion pieces that are just moronic. An opinionated presentation of the facts usually does not and cannot go that far.
                            On the other hand, one is specifically forwarned by the publication when an article is labelled "Opinion" or "Editorial." So if you read the article and encounter a steaming pile of crap, well, you shouldn't be all that surprised.

                            Presenting opinion as "news" is, IMO, telling people how to think.

                            -Arrian
                            grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                            The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

                            Comment

                            • #74
                              "I like news articles that at least try to be impartial accounts of the facts."

                              What's the result? The NY Times often has a lot of "government sources say..." stuff. It sometimes reads like the inofficial journal of the government. Transporting it as "the government sources say" is undoubtedly correct, but it's not what I expect as a news selection.

                              "Presenting opinion as "news" is, IMO, telling people how to think."

                              Every paper has its "line" that the reader knows. So there's no need to label all individual pieces, while there is a separate commentary section.
                              “Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)

                              Comment

                              • #75
                                To each his own.

                                -Arrian
                                grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                                The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

                                Comment

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