Re-Shaping the landscape in the wake of the Cold War

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by Arrian


You really are hung up on people who inherit things from their rich mummies and daddies, aren't you?

Believe it or not, there are people who actually work hard, make lots of money, and do stuff with that money (like own their own business, making cool little widgets that people want to buy).

You guys really don't know how it works. No one save money to start up a business like that. You have to borrow the money.

Originally posted by Arrian
Not all rich people were born so. That's what social mobility is about - so the Bill Gates of the world can have a good idea, put it into pratice, and become megawealthy (and then throw a couple hundred million bucks at AIDS prevention).

It's well know that Bill Gates stole the first idea that made him wealthy, and he probably has stolen several other ideas that he has profited from.

[Az]

no no no. he re-selled, Duncan.

[DinoDoc]

Too bad both of these threads went to crap. One of them might have had potential.

[Velociryx]

So....you are saying that *borrowing* money is the root of the evil, yes?

Without borrowing, people would have to work to earn the money in advance.

Are you living in a house now, with a mortgage? If so, is that not the *exact* same form of evil you're referencing?

-=Vel=-
PS to Dino: Yeah....the thread kinna got off track, didn't it? *sigh*

[Arrian]

You guys really don't know how it works. No one save money to start up a business like that. You have to borrow the money.

Of COURSE most people borrow money to set up a business. And why, exactly, is that bad?

But that doesn't speak to your repeated cracks at inheritance.

Gates was just an example (dunno about the "stolen idea" allegation). There are plenty of other entreprenuers out there who did not found their companies with money they inherited. More likely they scraped together whatever they had and borrowed the rest.

Again, why is borrowing money to start a business bad?

Dino,

Well, Vel & I responded to commie invasion. Whatcha gonna do, eh? Thoughts on the original topic?

-Arrian

[Velociryx]

And I had to actually look to see which thread we were in, at present!

BTW, thanks again, Arrian! Glad you like the thread!

And, perhaps we could pick back up on the original topic over at Thorn's UN-restructuring thread?

-=Vel=-

[DuncanK]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Velociryx
So....you are saying that *borrowing* money is the root of the evil, yes?
[QUOTE]
People have to borrow money. It's just part of the system. I'm just pointing out that all this BS about people who work hard and save their money get higher status in society is weak propaganda.

[Velociryx]

Then I am a living, breathing anachronism to what you believe.

I borrowed a spot of money, sure (for the truck--see my own personal example), but the greater bulk of my own success thus far has been entirely borne on my own back.

Am I just a rare exception that proves the rule? If so, then most of the people I know are also living examples of this "weak propaganda" (something I think would genuinely surprise them!)

-=Vel=-

[Willem]

Originally posted by Arrian

Dino,

Well, Vel & I responded to commie invasion. Whatcha gonna do, eh? Thoughts on the original topic?

-Arrian

Typical! We Canadians lend our support but you Yanks take all the credit!

[Velociryx]

D'oh! He got ya there, Arrian!

But yes....I'd call that a good "multinational effort!"

-=Vel=-

[Arrian]

Doh!

Mea Culpa, Willem. I'm getting the threads confused (that's my story, and I'm stickin' to it!).

Sorry about that.

Dunkan,

Weak propoganda? Hardly. My grandfather owned his own business. He didn't make it past the 8th grade (grew up during the Depression... had to go work). He was given nothing. Yet he is now relatively well off, living out his retirement in NC. He drives me nuts with his wacko uber-rightwing political views, but that's another issue. The man went from poor to middle class (at least) by virtue of his own hard work - and without the benifit of an education.

Weak propoganda, my ass.

-Arrian

[DuncanK]

I got too many right wingers on me right now. You all aren't making any relevant points right now. You are just citing examples thay may or may not be true, but prove nothing.

I gotta do some work.

[Arrian]

DuncanK,

What? First off, I'm not lying or misconstruing my grandfather's life experience. Second, it does prove something: if Vel and I can immediately fire back two examples of something you say doesn't exist... how likely is it that you are wrong?

Only a commie would think I'm right-wing.

-Arrian

[Velociryx]

Duncan - the examples used, pulled from real life, form a pattern.

Patterns define the truth, and the truth is, what you are saying is not how things really are.

My assumption is that, because you believe in a different ideology (communism), and these examples run counter to the propaganda that communism spins, they are unacceptable to you.

Unacceptable or not, however, they are the truth.

Is capitalism perfect? No. But then, capitalism does not promise to BE perfect (unlike communism, which promises a utopia it cannot deliver). Capitalism opens the door to abuses in power, yes. But because of its decentralized nature, those abuses can never even BEGIN to approach the level of abuse to be found in a communist society.

Borrowing money is not evil.

Private ownership is not evil.

Rewarding people for their inventiveness, charging rent, and trading the use of an expensive piece of machinery for an agreed upon sum of money are not evil, either.

-=Vel=-
(first time I have ever been called a right winger, btw)

[DuncanK]

btw, your only verifiable example was Bill Gates, and I blew that one out of the water