Rugby - Hemisphere Wars!

[Caligastia]

Damn! Ming was on the ball closing that last thread!

Carry on guys...

[Solly]

League > union.

[Caligastia]

Go away.

[Havak]

On the ball as ever Caligastia

You started this just in time for me to include this link of a racist nature before finishing for today.

When oh when will these players realise that the 'friendly' journo they are speaking to 'off the record' is no such thing and your words will find print.

I'm sure Tamerlin will disown the silly comments made?

[Caligastia]

The English are a race?

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Havak
(with apologies to Caligastia - I'm not setting out to wind him up honest, I just think Larkham and Wilko get in my squad before mehrts anyday)

I agree actually. Mehrtens is great, but Wilkinson is better.

Originally posted by Tamerlin
Is it a short or long term plan?

We hope to retire by the age of 95...

[finbar]

Tricky timing – European cup rounds take place then and getting home tickets will not be easy (unless it is a Welsh side visiting)

It can only be earlier than December if I miss part of the WRC. OTOH, it will also boil down to Mrs finbar arranging her holidays too. I may have to miss some of the WRC if her holidays don't coincide.

Bitter = Ambrosia.

My son, you are in need of education. A fresh, crisp Pinot Griggio or an earthy Chianti are Ambrosia.

The one where Wilko slipped and left the gap in the pattern?

The one where the England defence was at 6s and 7s through the whole build up with no idea where the next attack was coming from. Remember England going incredibly close to a penalty try for deliberately pulling down an AB maul within inches of the line on the right side of the field? Then the ball quickly went left where the defence was stretched to buggery before Jonah barrelled over. Wilko obviously wore the wrong studs. Silly Wilko.

Let me suggest every SH side that ever loses always has an excuse along those lines.

A-ha. But I'm not making excuses for either the Wallabies or the ABs. The Wallabies, undermanned and out-of-form, shouldn't have got within a bull's roar. The ABs' second-string pack should have been pushed off the park.

Bottom line = England 3 Cream of the SH Nil

What's the expression? "Lies, damn lies, and statistics"?

I hope you appreciate how nicely I am setting things up for the six nations and RWC?

As if you needed to!

But talking of mouths has it been reported down under that Austin is targeting scrum half for his England future? He is actually out injured until at least early march, the lad is having a terrible season for injury as it happens and has worn club colours very little. The lad has character issues I may not like but I’ll tell you this – Tigers miss him. His skill and pace in mid-field would be a real boon right now, especially if we got him at scrummy rather than ten (okay technically not mid-field as such but with Austin it would be).

I think I told you I saw him in a replay of one of the Leicester HC matches. He struck me as too erratic to hold down a scrum-half spot at a high level. You can't get away with that sort of thing for long against quality oppo. I'd've thought he's a winger.

I think it is sad he retired so young (body done in?) and I still regret that we never saw them pull on a Barbarians shirt together.

Partly the body - he had that terrible fractured eye socket injury - but I gather he mainly wanted to get on with his career. He'd also skippered the team to just about every available title so he thought the time was right. He could easily still have been playing. Better, I suppose, to know when the time is right. Too many players never know.

[ravagon]

Originally posted by Havak
You started this just in time for me to include this link of a racist nature before finishing for today.

Hmmm? This bit in particular stood out

"And as long as we beat England I wouldn't mind if we lost every other game in the Six Nations."

Um um um um um. Just the sort of comment a coach wouldn't want to hear from a player before going into a major competition. I have to wonder if that chap will make the starting lineup ...

When oh when will these players realise that the 'friendly' journo they are speaking to 'off the record' is no such thing and your words will find print.

Quite rhetorical of course, but if they ever did come to such a realization then the pundits (not such a good choice of a word I know) wouldn't have nearly as much to, erm, "discuss".

[ravagon]

to finbar for the link.

2003 Rugby World Cup groups

Pool A
Australia, Argentina, Ireland, Romania, Namibia.
Pool B
France, Scotland, Fiji, Japan, Repechage 1
Pool C
SA, England, Samoa, Uruguay, Georgia.
Pool D
NZ, Wales, Italy, Canada, Repechage 2


Does anybody else find it a little, "odd" that the above groups don't have more than one or two favourites apiece? Australia, France, England and NZ all in different groups? (I assume the top 2 from each go through).
I don't think the organizers couldn't have gotten a better draw if they'd tried. Witness the [deleted for Tamerlins benefit ] world cup last June with many very tough groups resulting in some quite major teams knocked out early (and the converse being the only reason the US progressed ).

[finbar]

I think they use a seeding system based on the results of the last WRC. I think you'll find that the S***** World Cup did the same thing. The problem for several of the major teams in the SWC was that they lost and drew matches against supposedly inferior teams. Any of the major rugby nations could, technically, suffer the same fate. It's less likely because, in s*****, one moment of madness out of 90 minutes can cost a game. With rugby's entirely different scoring system and pattern, it's unlikely to happen against the minnows in the first round.

[Havak]

The English are a race?

We are. Though in keeping with tradition we came in second.

I agree actually. Mehrtens is great, but Wilkinson is better.

Very close to being signature material.

It can only be earlier than December if I miss part of the WRC.

It’s a question of finding the right balance. I honestly believe for yourself that the benefits of visiting the EC outweigh the minor disadvantage of missing England and NZ contest the Sydney final of WRC.

My son, you are in need of education. A fresh, crisp Pinot Griggio or an earthy Chianti are Ambrosia.

As far as nice drinks go you will not find bigger heathens than my touring party as it happens. But at least I try everything. A lot of Anglo’s just drink Lager when they travel – what is the point of that I wonder?

The one where the England defence was at 6s and 7s through the whole build up with no idea where the next attack was coming from

Don’t remember it.

Was it the one where Wilko chipped the “best back line in the world”?

Yes there were problems with the defence in both games. If they learn from it I will be happy. I was more deflated by the Flatley breakway than either Jonah try. We have pace in spades in the back line so god knows how a medium paced runner like him skinned Robbo. Jonah has a jinx on England – I just accept that and wait for him to retire before I can expect us to bury them in a game. I have faith that the day is coming.

Interestingly the same does count for our opponents in both games – Cohen in particular exposed flaws in your defensive patterns though I acknowledge it is hard for any defence to pick a strong runner coming at a smart angle. And where was the NZ fullback when Wilko chipped – he read the situation entirely wrongly?

I think you know the problem in both games – we choked. It’s this problem with the myth of SH sides being great. It took the lads time to realise in both games that the sides they were facing were good but totally beatable with it. That crazy 20 minutes around half time against your boys still defies belief – the game was ours for the taking and they suddenly starting looking like headless chickens again. English sides of old could never have recovered from that so I guess on balance I have to be happy.

And I think you need to watch the NZ game again. Check the possession stats and you find a Lions share to our forwards. Look in particular for the impact of Ben Kay coming on after which the NZ line out ceased to function. In truth they were ‘pushed off the park’

As ever of course their back line used what ball they gained far better than we did. Vintage England and NZ on display if you like.

I think you once told me, in relation to the RWC 99 final, that the result is what matters. And the history books will only record one thing about Twickenham last November?

As if you needed to!

I really am the lone voice right now am I not?

Even the French lads need to distance themselves from me for a week or so to keep you SH lads flying Blue.

I'd've thought he's a winger.

You may be right – it has been his best position at times. His problem is England, and Tigers, have a wealth of class wingers. I fear he is destined to remain the ‘utility’ back.

Better, I suppose, to know when the time is right. Too many players never know.

Fair point. The problem is once it’s over it is over. It’s hard to come back (Ian Jones managed it I guess?).

It seems a waste. You will point out J never lifted the WE trophy. But he may well never do so and has already said he will play club rugby two years past his international retirement (which will be after either the RWC or next 6 nations). The guy has won everything you can at club level repeatedly but has no problem getting the hunger back. Maybe that did for Eales, playing in a workmanlike and unsuccessful club? It must be hard to raise your game repeatedly in such conditions?

I have to wonder if that chap will make the starting lineup ...

He is actually a truly superb player. It will be very hard to leave him out. But talk about giving the opposition ammunition!

I did like the point about “pundit-fodder”.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
England and NZ contest the Sydney final of WRC.

That, and my plane crashing. The ultimate disaster quinella.

As far as nice drinks go you will not find bigger heathens than my touring party as it happens. But at least I try everything. A lot of Anglo’s just drink Lager when they travel – what is the point of that I wonder?

Same as Australian males travelling in groups. Fosters, Fosters, Fosters. There must be something wrong with males who travel in groups.

Yes there were problems with the defence in both games. If they learn from it I will be happy. I was more deflated by the Flatley breakway than either Jonah try. We have pace in spades in the back line so god knows how a medium paced runner like him skinned Robbo.

Frankly, Elton's try was a one-off event. He had a head start and I still think Robinson "over raced". If he'd relaxed and run, he'd've caught him. But it was the lack of organisation - communication and discipline - in the defence that was exposed on the other occasions.

Interestingly the same does count for our opponents in both games – Cohen in particular exposed flaws in your defensive patterns though I acknowledge it is hard for any defence to pick a strong runner coming at a smart angle.

Ultimately, there are plays that are going to defeat any defence in the universe.

And where was the NZ fullback when Wilko chipped – he read the situation entirely wrongly?

Q.E.D. Just too good.

I think you know the problem in both games – we choked. It’s this problem with the myth of SH sides being great. It took the lads time to realise in both games that the sides they were facing were good but totally beatable with it. That crazy 20 minutes around half time against your boys still defies belief – the game was ours for the taking and they suddenly starting looking like headless chickens again. English sides of old could never have recovered from that so I guess on balance I have to be happy.

Well, yes, but how long is it now since the Wallabies beat England? How many times will England have to beat the Wallabies before they think they can beat them? On that basis, I'm not so sure that it's so much in England's heads. I suspect it's more a matter of chinks in the England game that were exposed by both SH teams.

And I think you need to watch the NZ game again. Check the possession stats and you find a Lions share to our forwards. Look in particular for the impact of Ben Kay coming on after which the NZ line out ceased to function. In truth they were ‘pushed off the park’

Lies, dam lies and statistics again!

I really am the lone voice right now am I not?

Even the French lads need to distance themselves from me for a week or so to keep you SH lads flying Blue.

I notice Tamerlin has been strangely quiet recently. Gone into hibernation in preparation for the Big Match, presumably.

You may be right – it has been his best position at times. His problem is England, and Tigers, have a wealth of class wingers. I fear he is destined to remain the ‘utility’ back.

He's quick and erratic and obnoxious. Sounds like the ultimate prerequisites for a winger to me.

The guy has won everything you can at club level repeatedly but has no problem getting the hunger back. Maybe that did for Eales, playing in a workmanlike and unsuccessful club? It must be hard to raise your game repeatedly in such conditions?

I don't know what J****'s qualifications are, or where he sees himself post-rugby, but Eales had his post-rugby career mapped out well before retirement. Rugby maybe J****'s whole life, it wasn't Eales'.

[Havak]

That, and my plane crashing. The ultimate disaster quinella.

For what it is worth I hope one of the two options doesn’t occur.

There must be something wrong with males who travel in groups

Even with moderately well educated crowds it still induces strange patterns of behaviour certainly.

But it was the lack of organisation - communication and discipline - in the defence that was exposed on the other occasions.

Ah hell I would love to argue with you but I have to say I still acknowledge, as I did last time we discussed these games in detail, that our backs are not there yet. Or close. It’s all down to individual talent with them still. Give me the NZ back line (and maybe Cohen) and our forwards and I’ll show you a team that works well.

Our forwards do remain colossal you know. Stats can be misleading but I would recommend you look at the percentage possession England enjoy in their games over the last four years. The last game where they came second best was Paris last year and it’s no accident that was to what I rate as the best contemporary pack at the moment – roll on Le Crunch!

You know almost any other side would be delighted with five losses in four seasons – it is perhaps England’s misfortune that four of those blew grand slams (and all five of those losses were away – again symptomatic of our problems).

Ultimately, there are plays that are going to defeat any defence in the universe.

True. There was some good stuff in the autumn tests that showed we have hope however. The Boks game was strange of course but many of the tries went through the boks rather than using the man advantage out wide. Greenwoods first try for example. When he gets it right he is world class. But when he gets it wrong – well it’s pretty bad.

Q.E.D. Just too good.

He is good – but the fullback had drifted and he spotted it. Inexperienced FB I think – Blair?

I suspect it's more a matter of chinks in the England game that were exposed by both SH teams.

Look to that back line Finbar. It doesn’t matter how good our forwards are if the backs break the defensive pattern and leave gaps?

And just to be clear – I have never said we are the perfect article.

We still won all three games though

I notice Tamerlin has been strangely quiet recently. Gone into hibernation in preparation for the Big Match, presumably.

On which note – if they beat us it may be a few days before I can summon the courage to face the music. But I will do so, trust me.

He's quick and erratic and obnoxious

The lad should get that on his CV toute suite.

Rugby maybe J****'s whole life, it wasn't Eales'.

Ah I see. Strangely of the two of them that makes me respect J more. To have the talent Eales did and not be utterly dedicated seems such a waste?

Martin was I believe a ‘merchant banker’ (no jokes please!). I think it’s fair to say his future may well be in media or coaching. The obvious route is to helm Tigers as Deano moves on (to England at some point I suspect).

But here is an outside bet for you – he loves Yankee football and could have played it Professionally apparently. He summarises on it for Sky TV even. I would not be surprised to find him being a defensive coach for a US side. He has the aptitude.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
Give me the NZ back line (and maybe Cohen) and our forwards and I’ll show you a team that works well.

Well, yes. Wouldn't a World XV be fun? I'm sure they play rugby on Mars. If only those damn shuttle things would stop blowing up we could get to Mars and organise someone to play our World XV.

it is perhaps England’s misfortune that four of those blew grand slams (and all five of those losses were away – again symptomatic of our problems).

That, I think, is probably the bottom line. The whole key to what happens here later in the year.

He is good – but the fullback had drifted and he spotted it. Inexperienced FB I think – Blair?

I think it was Blair. I don't know too many fullbacks who would have been prepared for what happened.

Look to that back line Finbar. It doesn’t matter how good our forwards are if the backs break the defensive pattern and leave gaps?

Too true. BTW, speaking of backs, how is young Rod Kafer travelling recently? Better than your last report hopefully.

And just to be clear – I have never said we are the perfect article.

To be fair, you haven't. If England could play away from home and not choke in key games, you'd probably be entitled to say it.

On which note – if they beat us it may be a few days before I can summon the courage to face the music. But I will do so, trust me.

In case they win, I think we should consider ourselves lucky Tamerlin is such a wise, level-headed soul. A rampant, chest-beating Le Bleu might be a bit hard to take.

Ah I see. Strangely of the two of them that makes me respect J more. To have the talent Eales did and not be utterly dedicated seems such a waste?

OTOH, J. Eales has proved himself multi-talented.

Martin was I believe a ‘merchant banker’ (no jokes please!).

You mean he collected debts for a merchant bank? (No jokes? Good grief! If I had that much willpower I'd've stopped smoking years ago!)

I think it’s fair to say his future may well be in media or coaching. The obvious route is to helm Tigers as Deano moves on (to England at some point I suspect).

Oh dear. A transition straight to coaching? At the same club? Hmmmm. It rarely succeeds.

he loves Yankee football

If it were at all possible, he's sunk even lower in my estimation.

[Havak]

Too busy at work for a full post but this is an intriguing drug scandal ?