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**Willem** · February 2, 2003, 20:01

Originally posted by DuncanK

Most people who smoke marijuana quit before it kills them, like me. Cigarettes are harder to quit.

I challenge you to provide me with a single concrete example where smoking marijuana has killed anyone.

**loinburger** · February 2, 2003, 20:03

Smoking doesn't kill people, man. Cancer kills people.

**Willem** · February 2, 2003, 20:04

Originally posted by Oerdin

By and large the people who are push for medical marijuana are just addicts who are looking for a way to ligitimize their addiction. Their goal is to get high and the suppression of simptums is an added benifet.

And of course you can provide conclusive proof that marijuana is physically addictive?

**Willem** · February 2, 2003, 20:06

Originally posted by Gatekeeper
I'm sure all you pot backers will hop on that airliner with the stoned pilot then, won't you? After all, it ain't any worse that smoking and, God knows, it even reduces the effects of illnesses!

Gatekeeper

I'd rather get on a plane with a stoned pilot than one who's drunk.

**Willem** · February 2, 2003, 20:12

Originally posted by Calc II

Oh and jays are 10 tens unhealthier for your lungs than 1 cigarette.

And you have some proof to back up your claim?

**Willem** · February 2, 2003, 20:21

Originally posted by Kramerman

Does anybody know any hard facts and statistics on marajuana and its effects on health?
Any credible websites?

Kman

Over twenty years ago, Canada studied the effects of marijuana under the authority of what was then called the LeDain Commision. They ascertained then that the health and social effects of smoking marijuana were negligable, and they recommended that, at the very least, it should be decriminalized. In all that time, there hasn't been a single study that has proven them wrong.

PS Here's a link:

Ledain Commision report

**Anodyne** · February 2, 2003, 20:21

Originally posted by Kramerman
If pot was legalized, many would probably chain smoke it, as it would be much, much cheaper than it is now, and there would be no legal consequences one has to dodge. Is this good? Is this bad? I dunno the answer to that.

Well, cannabis as a drug is illegal in Finland, too, but there's a long tradition of home-growing around here (and it's legal - for ornamental purposes

). Often, when people get the goodies harvested, they'll pretty much chain-smoke (at least a bowl/day... not nearly as much as the nicotine-addicts though) MJ as long as the stuff lasts - usually around a month to three months (just an estimation...). I know some of those people, and they all seemed normal, both mentally and physically during that "period". Of course, some effects are noticable, like mild impairment of short-term memory and reasoning (they will recover when you stop smoking). Physical effects are fatigue/etc... like with smoking tobacco.

I, myself, probably wouldn't start smoking MJ every day (but yes, I do smoke it every now and then), for the reasons above - I want my mind to be clear most of the time. But one thing is for sure, though - If I drank alcohol enough to be intoxicated every day, I'd be in FAR worse condition after 3-4 days than I'd be from MJ after a month.

So, basically, pot is bad for your health - but don't let that fact blind you; there are many things far worse that you can harm yourself with and that are 100% legal.

**Gatekeeper** · February 2, 2003, 22:14

Originally posted by Berzerker
Gatekeeper -

Why? Does my support for legalised alcohol require me to board a plane flown by a drunk? Tell us, should we incarcerate the millions of people who use alcohol because of drunk pilots? Should I advocate outlawing sleep because a pilot might fall asleep at the controls?

Re-read what I said: "I'm sure all you pot backers will hop on that airliner with the stoned pilot then, won't you?"

Where in there do I say you *have* to board a plane with a stoned pilot? Nowhere. Stop putting words in my mouth and stop twisting my thoughts to suit your needs.

What I was trying to communicate is simple: If pot is legalized, it's only a matter of time before some pilot, engineer or other person in a position of authority gets high while on the job. With their judgment impaired, the odds of a disaster occurring multiplies. The odds of you being on the same plane as the stoned pilot as it plunges to the ground? The odds of you being on the passenger train with the zoned out engineer? The odds of you being in the vehicle that's about to get struck head-on by an out-of-control semi with a blasted driver? I don't know. Wanna take a chance? Legalize pot and let's find out the hard way.

Furthermore, pick up the latest copy of USA Weekend. There's a study in there that indicates pot can, indeed, be a gateway drug for people. The study involved twins — oftentimes the twin who ended up using pot went on to other drugs while the twin who stayed off drugs never got sucked into the vortex later in life.

Calling others "idiots" after those gems made my day.

I don't know about you, Berzerker, but you really had to *twist* what I was saying to get it to fit your view on drug use. Furthermore, I didn't call anyone an idiot, thank you very much.

Gatekeeper

**Felch** · February 2, 2003, 22:19

Pot is a gateway drug because the sources for it tend to be close to sources for other drugs. If you're already doing one illegal drug, like pot, jumping to speed or something isn't as huge of a leap. If pot were legalized, it wouldn't be a bridge.

The gateway effect is more a reason to legalize than to criminalize.

**Gatekeeper** · February 2, 2003, 22:23

Berzerker:

Contrary to your statement earlier in this thread, I believe brain cells are *not* constantly dying or being inhibited. If they were, we'd all have Alzheimer's or be brain dead by the time were young adults (or just plain dead, since the brain regulates just about everything in our body).

Now, I'm *not* a biology expert, but brain cells are related to nerve cells, no? We know nerve cells do not easily regenerate 98 percent of the time (why the heck do you think Christopher Reeve and so many other vicitims of paralysis are battling for advances in this medical field?) and the same holds true for brain cells, except it's closer to 100 percent non-regeneration for them if they die.

Gatekeeper

**Gatekeeper** · February 2, 2003, 22:25

Willem:

Y'know what? I'd rather be a passenger on a plane whose pilot is clear-minded and solidly rooted in reality.

Gatekeeper

**monolith94** · February 2, 2003, 22:41

Gatekeeper, no one is going to let a high pilot fly a plane. It just isn't going to happen. There are many other ways to impair your ability to fly a plane (hint: it's called "drinking") and they don't let those pilots fly planes either. If a pilot goes to work either drunk, or high, no way will he be allowed on. He'd most likely be fired.
Yours is perhaps the single most paranoid, insane argument for the criminalization of marijuana I have ever heard in my entire life. It's a 'slippery-slope' argument of the most extreme kind.

"Once we legalize marijuana, what's to stop surgeons from taking it before surgery? What's to stop them????"

**Gatekeeper** · February 2, 2003, 22:59

Fascinating! Hell, let's just legalize everything and put our faith that any high, stoned or drunk person will be caught before they cause a damn disaster.

While we're at it, how about repealing laws regarding robbery and murder? We can just have faith that would-be murderers and robbers will be caught before the act or dissuaded by their enlightened peers from carrying out the deed.

My point? There's a good reason that certain drugs are illegal, just as there are reasons why other drugs are available only by prescription: They're potentially dangerous and, frankly, Joe and Jane Six Pack likely don't know or don't care about possible side effects from use thereof. Therefore it falls to the rule of law to at least try and keep things orderly.

Gatekeeper

**Gatekeeper** · February 2, 2003, 23:01

Y'know what monlith? Perhaps my "insane" and "paranoid" argument stems from experience with a f*cking pothead who was just a "casual" user! Recreation my ASS.

**Willem** · February 2, 2003, 23:11

Originally posted by Gatekeeper

What I was trying to communicate is simple: If pot is legalized, it's only a matter of time before some pilot, engineer or other person in a position of authority gets high while on the job. With their judgment impaired, the odds of a disaster occurring multiplies. The odds of you being on the same plane as the stoned pilot as it plunges to the ground? The odds of you being on the passenger train with the zoned out engineer? The odds of you being in the vehicle that's about to get struck head-on by an out-of-control semi with a blasted driver? I don't know. Wanna take a chance? Legalize pot and let's find out the hard way.

Well that happens now with alcohol, should we make that illegal? How many pilots now in the US were pulled from their flight because they were drunk?

And as someone who uses both alcohol and marijuana, I can assure you that I'm alot more capable when I'm stoned than when I'm drunk.

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