Stalingrad remembered.

[Datajack Franit]

Did I say I was leaving?

When one posts a vomit thread and tells all of us about his barf attitude, he's supposed to post something like: "it wasn't a bowel cancer, I don't do drugs and now I feel better thank you very much"-thread

[VetLegion]

stalin certainly killed a bunch of people, but he also gave them guns and ammo

and he positioned NKVD with machine guns behind their backs.. just in case their love of Rodina was not enough. At least according to that movie 'Enemy at the Gates' I saw recently, I m not a wwII expert..

[Grandpa Troll]

900-DAY SIEGE OF LENINGRAD (BLOKADA)
Despite hunger and cold they did not surrender
"The Road of Life" - the vital link with the mainland
City's art treasures during the Siege
The Piskariovskoye Cemetery - a place for silent mourning
This was certainly the most tragic period in the history of this city. It was full of suffering and heroism. For everyone who lives in St. Petersburg the Blokada (the Siege) of Leningrad is an important part of their heritage and for the older generations it brings the memories that they will never forget.

Less than two and a half months after June 22, 1941, when the Soviet Union was attacked by Nazi Germany, German troops were already approaching Leningrad. The Red Army was outflanked and on September 8, 1941 the Germans had fully encircled Leningrad and the siege began. It lasted for about 900 days, from September 8, 1941 till January 27, 1944. Two million 887 thousand civilians (including about 400 thousand children) plus troops didn't even consider any calls for surrender. Food and fuel stocks were very limited (1-2 months only). All the public transport stopped. By the winter of 1941-42 there was no heating, no water supply, almost no electricity and very little food. In January 1942, in the depths of an unusually cold winter, the lowest food rations in the city were only 125 grams (about 1/4 of a pound) of bread per day. In just two months, January and February, 1942, 200 thousand people (!!!) died in Leningrad of cold and starvation. But some of the war industry still worked and the city did not surrender.

Several hundred thousand people were evacuated from the city across Lake Ladoga via the famous "Road of Life" ("Doroga Zhizni") - the only route that connected the besieged city with the mainland. During the warm season people were ferried to the mainland, and in winter - carried by trucks that drove across the frozen lake under constant enemy bombardment.

Meanwhile, the city lived on. The treasures of the Hermitage and the suburban palaces of Petrodvorets, Pushkin, etc. were hidden in the basements of the Hermitage and St Isaac's Cathedral. Most students continued their studies and even passed finals. Dmitry Shostakovich wrote his Seventh "Leningrad" Symphony and it was performed in the besieged city.

In January 1943 the Siege was broken and a year later, on January 27, 1944 it was fully lifted. At least 641 thousand people had died in Leningrad during the Siege (some estimates put this figure at 800 thousand). Most of them were buried in mass graves in different cemeteries. The Piskariovskoye Memorial Cemetery, where almost 500 thousand people are buried, became one of the most impressive national war memorials.

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I would have chosen this as a more important battle in Russia's Plight. Just an opinion is all.


This anniversary also just passed, January 27th



Troll

[Serb]

Originally posted by LaRusso
oh yes and i support remaining kaliningrad into koenigsberg. that would make immanuel kant stop turning in his grave...

[Serb]

Originally posted by VetLegion


and he positioned NKVD with machine guns behind their backs.. just in case their love of Rodina was not enough.

Rumors about those units "zagrad otryadi" are greatly exxagerated. In accordance with Stalin's order N227 "no retreat" (iirc the number) 5-6 units per army, (each unit 200 soldiers) should be created and put behind regiments with lowest morale. So, count it by yourself how much those NKVD soldiers- 1000-1200 PER ARMY (an army usually had several divisions, each division usually had 10 000 soldiers) could affect the outcome of battle.

At least according to that movie 'Enemy at the Gates' I saw recently, I m not a wwII expert..

"Enemy at the gates" is complete crap, just complete CRAP.

[Felch]

I remember reading a book about the Leningrad siege in elementary school. I guess because of that, I always viewed it as more important and meaningful than Stalingrad. But whatever.

[Master Zen]

I actually liked enemy at the gates... it had a much better plot than saving private ryan.

If you all want to read an awsome book on the battle, read Antony Beevor's STALINGRAD: THE FATEFUL SIEGE. It is the best book on a single battle I have ever read.

As I said earlier, I think it is up to the Russians to decide if they are willing to forget a name, when I hear the word Stalingrad I do not think of the man, I think of the battle, and its for that reason that if I were Russian I would probably agree (if my familiy had been killed by Stalin I probably wouldn't)

[Dr Strangelove]

Actually, I think that successive Republican regimes have pretty much wiped FDR's name off of the face of the (American) map. AFAIK all he ever got his name on was an office buiilding, and I think that it has been torn down and rteplaced with something named after someone else. There were of course literally thousands of schools built by the WPA, and adorned by corner stones bearing the WPA logo,but after more than 60 years few of them remain standing. I went to two of such schools. One was recently torn down, the other has been remodeled in such a manner as to obliterate the original corner stone.

We should remember the enormous ordeal born by the Russian people during WW2 though.

[Drake Tungsten]

oh yes and i support remaining kaliningrad into koenigsberg. that would make immanuel kant stop turning in his grave...

Hear, hear!

It was and always shall be Koenigsberg!

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by raguil_79
I actually liked enemy at the gates... it had a much better plot than saving private ryan.

Are you kidding?? The Muppets Take Manhattan has a better plot than Saving Private Ryan.

If you all want to read an awsome book on the battle, read Antony Beevor's STALINGRAD: THE FATEFUL SIEGE. It is the best book on a single battle I have ever read.

Or the book War of the Rats [I forget the author] It's about the same sniper duel as Enemy at the Gates but is about 1,000 times better. The snipers in War of the Rats would have taken out those inept snipers in Enemy at the Gates in about 5 seconds.

[Nubclear]

EDIT: Bad version of the Soviet flag. Anyone got a better one?

[Serb]

A flag waving show? Cool How about this one?

[Propaganda]

[SIZE=1] Originally posted by Tassadar5000

[Serb]

Originally posted by raguil_79

As I said earlier, I think it is up to the Russians to decide if they are willing to forget a name, when I hear the word Stalingrad I do not think of the man, I think of the battle, and its for that reason that if I were Russian I would probably agree (if my familiy had been killed by Stalin I probably wouldn't)

Well, my grandmother and her sister lost their parents during Stalin's purges of Red army. Both of them don't mind if city will be renamed (which is VERY unlikely imho), because as you said word Stalingrad reminds battle, not dictator.

[Jaguar]

Originally posted by Tassadar5000




EDIT: Bad version of the Soviet flag. Anyone got a better one?

I think you are the 'poly leader in the field of "number of posts consisting entirely of flags"