Bush says he will declassify intelligence proving Iraqi has WoMD.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Oerdin
A quick search of CNN's web site for the key words "Iraq + Al Qaeda" yielded these results

Quantity doesn't equal quality. All of those links ultimately use the Bush Administration as a source. Since the American government has been known to lie, not only to the world but its own people, this cannot be considered an objective source.

[Adam Smith]

TWEEEET!!!

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
and allows companies to profit off of unsafe products and working conditions which kill between a half million to a million Americans a year. Gosh, we sure are the paragon of human dignity.

I'm throwing the bullshit flag on this one Chegitz. In 2001 there were 42,116 HIGHWAY DEATHS in the US. In 2001 there were 5,900 WORKPLACE FATALITIES in the US (not counting Sept. 11). DEATHS FROM ALL OTHER FORMS OF ACCIDENTS were about equal to deaths from motor vehicle accidents. Even if there was no overlap between categories, and every single fatality was due to corporate malfeasance, your numbers are still off by at least a factor of five to ten. I sure hope your other sources are better than this one.[img]http://users.pandora.be/ramones/emoticon/bull****.gif[/img]

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger Go to this listing, and scroll down to find Resolution 1441. It's a Acrobat document.

Thanks for the link. I'm reading it, for the first time, now.

[chequita guevara]

Re: TWEEEET!!!

Originally posted by Adam Smith
I'm throwing the bullshit flag on this one Chegitz.

You should read better. I said unsafe products and working conditions. Deaths due to unsafe working conditions don't just include on the job accidents. They also include people who get diseases from the products with which they work. I didn't even include people who live downwind or downstream from toxic sites.

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


Go to this listing, and scroll down to find Resolution 1441. It's a Acrobat document.

Yep, this works.

And here we have said passage where the Memberstates of the UN are requested to provide Informations and Support to the inspectors:

10. Requests all Member States to give full support to UNMOVIC and the IAEA in the discharge of their mandates, including by providing any information related to prohibited programmes or other aspects of their mandates, including on Iraqi attempts since 1998 to acquire prohibited items, and by recommending sites to be inspected, persons to be interviewed, conditions of such interviews, and data to be collected, the results of which shall be reported to the Council by UNMOVIC and the IAEA;

[Dinner]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara Quantity doesn't equal quality. All of those links ultimately use the Bush Administration as a source. Since the American government has been known to lie, not only to the world but its own people, this cannot be considered an objective source.

And the statements by the Jordanians government? Are they too not to be trusted?

[Adam Smith]

Re: Re: TWEEEET!!!

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Deaths due to unsafe working conditions don't just include on the job accidents. They also include people who get diseases from the products with which they work. I didn't even include people who live downwind or downstream from toxic sites.

You should read better. The data I cited include deaths from both accidents and from illnesses. I have some data at home on off-site deaths from illnesses. They are much smaller than occupational deaths because the level of exposure is correspondingly lower.

edit:
PS: While I hate tobacco companies, cigarettes are also sold in non-capitalist countries. How can you then attribute these deaths to the profit motive? (cross posted on this originally)

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Oerdin


And the statements by the Jordanians government? Are they too not to be trusted?

er, if you check the aritcle, the Jordanians say Zarqawi is behind this, but they dont say where Zarqawi is - its the US that says hes in Bagdad.

Of course it seems he entered Jordan from SOMEWHERE. That means Syria, Iraq, Israel or Saudi. Teh admin says Iraq, No one else says anything.

I bet the stuff the admin has been hinting at today relates to Zarqawis whereabouts.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


Maybe you should ask the Afghanis how liberated they feel, considering they now live under a state of martial law, food and water shortages, almost daily violence, a growing internal civil war and near-anarchy. Yeah, I bet that's really liberating for them.

I think its time for a "current conditions in Afghanistan" thread. Ive already done my 2 OT threads for today, so you'll have to wait till tomorow.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Oerdin
And the statements by the Jordanians government? Are they too not to be trusted?

That's new. I still have to analyze it.

[chequita guevara]

Re: Re: Re: TWEEEET!!!

Originally posted by Adam Smith
PS: While I hate tobacco companies, cigarettes are also sold in non-capitalist countries. How can you then attribute these deaths to the profit motive? (cross posted on this originally)

It's irrelevent as far as the US is concerned.

When I can track down the article on workplace related deaths I'll post a link.

[Dinner]

Che: I have a hard time accepting that it is the government's fault for people who die of smoling. The government has gone out of its way to tell consumers how dangerous smoking is yet some people choice to do so any way. I'd say people are responsible for their own actions.

[Drake Tungsten]

I've been reading the papers, watching the news, surfing online, and there have not been any stories about Al Qaeda connections in Iraq. Post a link, prove me wrong...

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/27/opinion/27SAFI.html

Not that I take any pleasure in proving Sava wrong. Like shooting fish in a barrel...

[Dinner]

WASHINGTON — In the days following the Sept. 11 attacks, Secretary of State Colin Powell could find "no clear link" between Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein.

One soon appeared. On Sept. 24, 2001, I reported: "The clear link between the terrorist in hiding [Osama] and the terrorist in power [Saddam] can be found in Kurdistan, that northern portion of Iraq protected by U.S. and British aircraft. . . . Kurdish sources tell me (and anyone else who will listen) that the Iraqi dictator has armed and financed a fifth column of Al Qaeda mullahs and terrorists. . . ."

The C.I.A. would not listen. Through credulous media outlets, the agency — embarrassed by its pre-Sept. 11 inadequacies — sought to discredit all intelligence about this force of 600 terrorists. Called Ansar al Islam, and led by Osama's Arabs trained in Afghanistan, they were sent in with Saddam's support to establish an enclave in the no-flight zone. One assignment was to assassinate the free Kurds who made up the only anti-Saddam leadership inside Iraq.

Well armed and financed by both Iraq and Iran, this affiliate of Al Qaeda has since provided a haven for bin Laden followers exfiltrating from Afghanistan. They tried to assassinate an articulate Kurdish leader, Barham Salih, killing several bodyguards, but their target escaped and several killers were captured. Our National Security Council members did not learn about this bloody engagement, one of them told me a week afterward, until they read about it in The Times.

The Kurds induced the captives and some defectors to reveal that the Ansar cell of Al Qaeda had begun producing poisonous chemicals for export. One product was reported here to be a cyanide cream being smuggled through Turkey. The operation was set up by a man with a limp, the informants said, a key bin Laden lieutenant, Abu Musaab al-Zarqawi. ( I misspelled that name a few weeks ago.)

The C.I.A. continued to pooh-pooh any connection between Ansar and Saddam. But reporter Jeff Goldberg of The New Yorker and more recently C. J. Chivers of The Times went into Iraq and interviewed some of the captured terrorists. Such reporting eroded the "no clear link" line put out by opponents of action against Saddam.

Late last summer, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld declared publicly "There are Al Qaeda in a number of locations in Iraq," which was met with a derisive "no one's got proof" headline. The C.I.A. resisted a proposal to send a covert force into Iraqi Kurdistan to destroy the secret chemical weapons lab.

On Oct. 8 of last year President Bush made public a little more of what we learned. "Some Al Qaeda leaders who fled Afghanistan went to Iraq," he told a Cincinnati audience. "These include one very senior Al Qaeda leader who received medical treatment in Baghdad this year, and who has been associated with planning for chemical and biological attacks."

That was Zarqawi. Long sought in Jordan for terrorist attacks (most recently the assassination of the U.S. diplomat Laurence Foley in Amman), he joined bin Laden in Afghanistan. After the Taliban defeat, Zarqawi slipped out of that country through Iran and made his way to a Baghdad hospital, where his injured leg was treated or amputated, certainly with the knowledge of Saddam's mukhabarat secret police. He was then dispatched to Al Qaeda's Ansar cell in Iraqi Kurdistan, reported the captives who worked with him in the mountains, to create the terrorist poison laboratory.

British intelligence believes the limping terrorist took one of his products, ricin, to Algerian contacts in Turkey. This is a poison that can be delivered in warheads and one well known to Iraqi chemists, who cannot speak to U.N. inspectors. Two weeks ago, a British detective, Stephen Oake, was killed arresting Algerians suspected of making ricin in North London.

American "counterterrorism officials" are still in angry denial about the pattern they refused to see that connects Qaeda terrorists in hiding with Iraqi terrorists in power.

But even the Bush administration's most reluctant warrior has come to accept the validity of the link that embattled Kurds have been trying to warn us of since Sept. 11: Saddam and the followers of bin Laden are bedfellows.

Iraq, concluded Secretary of State Colin Powell this weekend in Switzerland, has "clear ties to terrorist groups, including Al Qaeda."