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Bush says he will declassify intelligence proving Iraqi has WoMD.
Originally posted by Oerdin
Dino: Your url asks for a user name and password. UR what URL did you get your copy from and I'll read that one.
Go to this listing, and scroll down to find Resolution 1441. It's a Acrobat document.
(\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
(='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
(")_(") "Starting the fire from within."
(\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
(='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
(")_(") "Starting the fire from within."
I've been reading the papers, watching the news, surfing online, and there have not been any stories about Al Qaeda connections in Iraq. Post a link, prove me wrong...
But then again, I don't expect you guys to make the distinction between people from the Middle East. There are lots of people who think of the entire region as one group. Since a handful of terrorists carried out 9-11, we should take it out on all Muslims...
Originally posted by Oerdin
I bet the leftists will still try to blame the U.S. and Britain when they knock out these missile sites. Why don't Muslim countries respect human life as much as everyone else?
Iraq is a secular state, not Muslim.
And yeah, no one respects human life as much as the US, who's killed 11 million people since the end of WWII, has 40,000 murders a year, and allows companies to profit off of unsafe products and working conditions which kill between a half million to a million Americans a year. Gosh, we sure are the paragon of human dignity.
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
Originally posted by Sava
I've been reading the papers, watching the news, surfing online, and there have not been any stories about Al Qaeda connections in Iraq. Post a link, prove me wrong...
But then again, I don't expect you guys to make the distinction between people from the Middle East. There are lots of people who think of the entire region as one group. Since a handful of terrorists carried out 9-11, we should take it out on all Muslims...
I dont hink we should take anythoing out on muslims - i think we should liberate muslims, as we have done in afganistan.
Even if Iraq is not connected with Al qaeeda, saddam has supported terrorism - inlcuding assasinations of iraqi dissidents abroad, funds to support suicide bombing by Hamas, and of course the attempt to assasinate ex-President Bush.
Re al qaeeda - we know that Zarqawi, a high level AL qaeeda operative passed through Iraq after 9-11 - we dont yet have public proof that the iraqi govt knew it, or what contact they had with him. WE also know that the Kurds report that prisoners caputred form al ansar, a group affiliated with Al qaeeda, have acknowledged recieiving help from Iraqi intelligence - Saddams defenders claim that the Kurds are biased, and that nothing that comes from prisoners under their control can be believed.
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
Iraq is a secular state by the standards of the islamic world - sharia is not fully enforced, non muslims can hold high positions of state (tariq aziz) and teh Baath ideology is not rooted in islam. however there is some enforcement of sharia (IIUC muslims cannot purchase alcohol, though non-muslims can) and the state builds and controls mosques, for example the "mother of all battles mosque) - saddam has added much islamic rhetoric in the years since Gulf war one.
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
Powell, apparently, in an interview with an Italian paper yesterday, said the inspectors themselves found that. Todays WAPO mentioned it, but i havent yet found the text. In any case the Saddam defenders here wont take it seriuosly, they'll say Saddam is lying. So until we get inspectors on paper saying it, or other evidence, it will have no impact.
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
Maybe you should ask the Afghanis how liberated they feel, considering they now live under a state of martial law, food and water shortages, almost daily violence, a growing internal civil war and near-anarchy. Yeah, I bet that's really liberating for them.
And yeah, no one respects human life as much as the US, who's killed 11 million people since the end of WWII, has 40,000 murders a year, and allows companies to profit off of unsafe products and working conditions which kill between a half million to a million Americans a year. Gosh, we sure are the paragon of human dignity.
Mr guevera is correct to take issue with such broad statements about the value of life - whether i agree with his detailed points or not, it is simply too broad a generalization, and invites replies such as guevara has given.
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
Maybe you should ask the Afghanis how liberated they feel, considering they now live under a state of martial law, food and water shortages, almost daily violence, a growing internal civil war and near-anarchy. Yeah, I bet that's really liberating for them.
the only afgahn i know personally was tortured by the taliban, and fled with his family over the mountains.
I note that since the liberation refugees have flooded INTO afghanistan.
How many afghans do you know, and what do they feel???
And what evidence do you have for the abundance of food,water, etc there under the taliban??? In fact much of the infrastructure destruction we are dealing with took place then. Oh and the civil war never ended under the Taliban and was much more intense than what is going on now.
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Iraq is a secular state, not Muslim.
And yeah, no one respects human life as much as the US, who's killed 11 million people since the end of WWII, has 40,000 murders a year, and allows companies to profit off of unsafe products and working conditions which kill between a half million to a million Americans a year. Gosh, we sure are the paragon of human dignity.
Che: Then why is their official name the Islamic Republic of Iraq? Alos where did you get those figures about people killed in war and industrial casualties per year? I would like to know.
A quick search of CNN's web site for the key words "Iraq + Al Qaeda" yielded these results
Also building on what LotM said; on 12/13/02 the Jordanian government issued its final report on the assisination of an American diplomatLaurence Foley in Amman earilier this year. here is a CNN report on this case.
a quote from the article
A statement from the Jordanian government said the two men, identified as Salem Sa'ed Salem bin Suweid, a Libyan national, and Yasser Fathi Ibraheem, a Jordanian, confessed to their membership in al Qaeda and that they received their orders from a senior al Qaeda leader.
According to the statement, "bin Suweid and Ibraheem confessed that they are members of Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda organization, and are affiliated with bin Laden's lieutenant, Ahmad Fadeel Nazal Al-Khalayleh, known as Abu Musa'ab Al-Zarqawi."
It goes on to say that Al-Zarqawi planned and master minded the assinations from his hotel room in Baghdad and that he continues to stay in Iraq despite official protests by the U.S. and Jordan. Further CNN also states in Al-Zarqawi is implicated in planning poisin gas attacks in western Europe and that the Iraqi Government has be providing him with free medical care for wounds Al-Zarqawi recieved while fighting in Afghanastan.
Further more there is a suspected secret Islamic terrorist training center and chemical weapons testing facility in northern Iraq (see here) which British Commandos were planning to attack earlier this year but the opporation got delayed as U.N. Inspectors were allowed to reenter Iraq and both the U.S. & British governments didn't want the attack to upset that turn of events.
For every CNN article I posted you can easily find a BBC article to back up what was written.
Originally posted by Oerdin
Che: Then why is their official name the Islamic Republic of Iraq?
Who knows, but it's still a secular government.
Alos where did you get those figures about people killed in war and industrial casualties per year? I would like to know.
The numbers of those killed in war or US instigated actions (i.e., the Chilean coup or the Contra rebels) was compiled by former CIA agent John Stockwell. The number was ten million in the late 1980s. To that need to be added all those killed since then.
Industrial casualities and deaths to unsafe products are a bit harder to nail down, since I don't have all the data. Be that as it may, 400,000 people in the US die every year due to cigarette smoking, i.e., they use a product as it's intended and it kills them. Regardless of personal responsibility, we allow companies to profit off the deaths and sickness of others. Add to this approximately 75,000 Americans who die in industrial accidents or because of work-related diseases (source: Chicago Reader). So we have 475,000 a year right there.
Autos aren't made as safe as they could be, or vehicals that are dangerous to others are allowed on the road (SUVs), health care decisions made by accountants not doctors, over-worked medical staff, over-worked truckers, foods high in fat and sodium, factory farming turning uncooked meat into a biohazard, etc. All these decicions are made not for what is best for the consumer, but what is best for profitability.
Yes, we give people the choice of whether or not to kill themselves in many cases (even if they aren't fully informed or are mislead as to the consequences of thei actions), but nonetheless, you can't claim we put a high value on human life when we value profits before it. In fact, there is no law in the US or its states that allow a corporate or company manager or executive to be charged with murder or neglegent homocide if they knowingly send a worker to die (as one horrifying iron tubing company routinely does). The maximum sentence they can recieve is under five years, if they even get charged.
The truth is, we don't value human life anywhere near what we claim to do. Look at all the chicken hawks who are demanding war, knowing that it will kill many thousands of Iraqis, just because Iraq got a B+ instead of an A+ from Blix.
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
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