China launches new stealth fighter project

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Secondly, even by Pentagon's own simulation, the 7th Fleet cannot sustain air superiority in a war with the PRC. That was in 1995 I believe. Now the PRC has even better planes and missiles while the US counterpart stays the same, combined with long range anti-radiation missiles, the carrier groups won't even want to get near.

But why should we bother with telling this to Mr Floyd?

That's why in 1995 they sent two carrier battle groups. Plus they would have the help of the Taiwanese Air Force and probably the South Korean and Japanese as well. Not to meantion the U.S. could forward position it's planes in Taiwan as soon as it looks like trouble is brewing or even pull in additional air craft carrier battle groups.

[Drake Tungsten]

But why should we bother with telling this to Mr Floyd?

Go right ahead. I don't think you'll bother him much; until you take into account American land-based air assets in Korea, Japan, and probably Taiwan, your argument won't carry much weight. You might also want to eliminate the assinine notion that American capabilities have remained the same since 1995. The technological leap in American weaponry since that time has been gigantic.

edit: Damn it, Oerdin! You stole my thunder!

[DaShi]

This entire thread is amusing.

[Sava]

The US couldn't take Vietnam... and China is a lot bigger than the 30 million Iraq has.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

The highly touted Sino-Russian cooperation agreement is long on rhetoric, but suprisingly short on substance. Little has come of it besides the mutually benificial sale of Russian arms to China.

Blah...blah...blah...
China is one of the largest (if not the largest) trade partners for Russia. And it's not all about arms, but many, many other things. (Including our nuclear plants, btw )
Yeah, go ahead, include both of us in the "axis of evil", because of Russians who build nuclear plants in China.

At it's core, the Sino-Russian relationship hasn't changed much.

BS. Our relationships changed dramaticaly since fall of SU. Today we consider ourselves partners, not enemies.

The same conflicts still exist.

It is not.

China is the rising power in East Asia and is going to want to reassert its control in areas that historically fell under its purview. This includes Mongolia, an area Russia is extremely touchy about, and the Soviet Far East beyond the Amur River, which was taken from China by the Russians in what many Chinese view as a unequal treaty. Add in competition between Russia and China for influence in Central Asia and you have a plethora of issues that could put a serious kink in the supposedly good Sino-Russian relationship.

Few years ago the threatu about common border was signed between our countries. "Border problems" were solved in this document.

Russo-American relations are at a high point. Putin and Bush are supposedly good friends.

Yeah, like me and David Floyd.

I'd suggest that Russo-American relations are just as warm or warmer than Sino-Russian relations.

Not even a close. Russo-American relationships lacks trust.

[mindseye]

True, but Russian equipment can't compete with the top-of-the-line ships fielded by the US (and to a lesser extent) Taiwan and Japan.

I think it would be a big waste of money for the Chinese to try to match the US, considering the liklihood of ever going up directly against the American military.

(...) just compare the current and projected military budgets of the U.S., Japan, the major EU powers, South Korea, and China and you'll see China's spending is on the bottom.

Is that good or bad? Me, I think spending the funds on space exploration is a better idea!

A lot of CIA analysts have said that China will be involved in a Cold War with the US in the next 20 years. Could this be the start?

Do you mean this thread, here at Apolyton?

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Sava
The US couldn't take Vietnam... and China is a lot bigger than the 30 million Iraq has.

It most certainly could if it decided to invade the north. Johnson wasn't sure how far he could go before he would provoke the SU into WW3 so he just tried to fight and not fight at the same time. Defend but never attack. Bomb but don't send in the tanks.

Powell is right; either something is worth fighting for and you go all out or you don't fight. Only sort of fighting and letting things drag on and on is no plan at all.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Oerdin
It most certainly could if it decided to invade the north.

The Chinese would have invaded and the USSR was prepared to go to war over North Vietnam as well. No one would have one that war except the cockroaches.

BTW, why would South Korea and Japan aid the US if the US decides to attack China?

[el freako]

Originally posted by Oerdin
During the Korean war the Americans killed red Chinese at a rate of 20:1 and captured red chinese at a rate of 40:1. The aircraft kill rate was equally impressive and the Reds had the latest fighter aircraft the SU could provide.

I think the U.S. technology lead has increased greatly since 1950 so we could expect similiar or higher kill rates.

Do you really think the Korean war is a good example to throw around, considering that when the Chinese entered the war the US controlled almost all of the peninsular and at the end of the war you controlled only half of it?


Several other factors have shifted in China's favour since then as well:

Number of men of millitary age (17-38)
1950 Ratio: 4.1 chinese to 1 american
2005 Ratio: 5.5 chinese to 1 american

China's industrial output:
1950: 2% of the USA
2005: 23% of the USA

[SpencerH]

Great! Let em build as many as they want. The financial costs of developing and maintaining such toys will bring down the communist government.

[Sandman]

Stealth units are ideal backstabbing weapons. Bad for international peace.

On a related note, could stealth aircraft pilots be executed as spies under the Geneva Convention? They're unmarked, after all.

[SpencerH]

The aircraft may not be marked but the pilots are.

[chequita guevara]

Stealth planes are only useful against smaller countries. Russia and China both have the technology to track American stealth planes. Hell, Yugoslavia even managed to shoot one down.

[Serb]

Yeah, I don't understand why "stealth" is so big deal. Stealth planes are not a problem for Russian SAM's as S-300 and S-400.

An anecdote:
Yugoslavian AA battery gunner is constantly shooting in absolutely clear sky... Explosion...Stealth bomber is falling down
American pilot: "you- fuc@%#$^ % #$%^#^ @#%#$^"
Yugoslavian gunner: "Sorry bro, I didn't noticed you"

[Sandman]

The aircraft may not be marked but the pilots are.

Yeah, but if a spy entered a country 'marked' with national colours under his civilian clothes, he'd still be executed.

Or what about a frogman planting explosives on cargo ships, with a national uniform underneath his drysuit?