Exidus of Jews from France reaches record levels.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by HershOstropoler
"Of course, no Synagogues have been burned in France. Jewish people have no reason to start to look for the exits. Of course not."

Well, let's look at how many jews get killed in acts of antisemitic violence:

EU: 0 (unfortunately 0 just in most years, not all)
US: 0 (unfortunately 0 just in most years, not all)
Israel: 100? 200? (unfortunately over the last years)

So why is Israel such an antisemitic country?

Yup, them Israelis are burnin the Synagogues at a torid pace. Man they are bad antisemites.

Why is it hard for you to accept that some Jewish people would start to get nervous when their places of worship are targeted by their 'countrymen'?

Geez, thats never happened before.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by HershOstropoler
Well, let's look at how many jews get killed in acts of antisemitic violence:

EU: 0 (unfortunately 0 just in most years, not all)
US: 0 (unfortunately 0 just in most years, not all)
Israel: 100? 200? (unfortunately over the last years)

As stated in the BBC article there was a rash of antisemitic attacks last year and an assination of a French Jewish leader.

[Pekka]

I find it disgusting to always blame the whole europe for something happening in one european country. I don't know what's happening in France, but saying we're all nazis is racist.

Aaglo, there is a large Jewish community here in finland too, but naturally small compared to other european countries. Now, I can say honestly and with my heart that there is no problem what so ever that Jews could face in here, since we don't make separations with religions and stuff like that. We don't consider our Jews as Jews, but more like Finns. You can all shout your Nazi complaints all you want, but until you find even ONE Jew here who is backing you up, it's useless. There is a synagogue near where I live, I've never seen any problems what so ever. Not even the slightest bit. So please do target your blames more accurately, because I do feel offended everytime this happens. Go on and bash europe as bunch of gay sissies who drink tea all day long and discuss abount paintings and then have sex with each others hairy bodies with bad teeth, but don't bring that Nazi thing here with generalisations, it's not appreciated.

Though I have to say there are some problems with racism towards African guys, but that goes for the gang members mostly, and it's not that bad, just some ethnic groups have formed gangs and they have their own disputes.

[notyoueither]

Good point Pekka. I doubt that all of Europe suffers the same circumstances as France. I honestly believe that many French would have it be otherwise, but it is not.

[Dinner]

It's not a Europe wide phenomenon and I think Ned was just so upset by what he's seen reported that he got mad and made a blanket statement. I'm sure he doesn't really think all of Europe is racist even if he did type it.

I also don't think the French are going to rewarm the ovens, so to speak, but never the less there seems to be a considerable amount of lingering cultural bigotry.

[HershOstropoler]

"Yup, them Israelis are burnin the Synagogues at a torid pace. Man they are bad antisemites."

That is what your logic implies.

"Why is it hard for you to accept that some Jewish people would start to get nervous when their places of worship are targeted by their 'countrymen'?"

Not at all hard to understand. Just try to get that the level of antisemitic violence is not a benchmark for antisemitic sentiment. Israel is suffering a high level of antisemitic violence mostly from "outside". Austria for example has a low level of antisemitic violence, but an average level of antisemitic sentiment. Or, since 1990, about 60.000-100.000 jews mostly from the CIS states have migrated to Germany. For the "exodus"-argument, will you tell me that the inflow shows there is no antisemitism in Germany ?

[Pekka]

Yeah. It's like Rumsfeld said 'when you think of Europe, you think of Germany and France'.

It's sometimes forgotten how different Europe is in itself. We are so different from each other, it's not just a myth . We differ in every possible thing there is.

First shock to me when I came to internet was when most of the people thought we were some Russian province, or at least something like that. Couldn't be any more wrong.
I don't know that much about France as I should, but I think there have been some problems with immigrants and those issues for longer time. I don't know about racism in France or anti-semitics.. at least there are movies about it!
But I know other countries good, and some of these claims just won't fit at all!

Sure, France and Germany are big power in Europe, but smaller countries shouldn't be considered as their servants and that they're the same, only poorer.
It's the same thing everytime, and I wouldn't have the energy to defend it, except that everytime I get called Nazi, as european, I don't think of flowers and love and small cute bunnies.

[notyoueither]

Uhhhh, Roland, the thread is about events in France.

[HershOstropoler]

a) Some have expanded it to Europe as a whole
b) Comparisons can be used to expose the flaws in the anti-french argument

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by HershOstropoler
a) Some have expanded it to Europe as a whole

They are bigots, most likely.

b) Comparisons can be used to expose the flaws in the anti-french argument

I think I will pay a lot of heed to the confirmed reports of antisemetic activities in France. Sorry, your stats can wait.

[CerberusIV]

There isn't one simple issue about racism. In the UK there are several strands of racism.

Crime - a perception of crime, particularly drugs and gun crime associated with Afro-caribbean people.

Immigration - economic refugees coming in and getting money, education and healthcare as a priority over poorer people who are UK citizens.

Ignorance - suspicion of people who speak a different language and don't mix socially or economically with the majority.

It isn't going to go away overnight and I suspect most of these points are issues in countries around the world, not just in Europe.

The problem jews face is not about the perception of local jews in France or any other european country, it is about perceptions of Israel. Until the 1980's Israel was presented as protecting jews and was seen as a safe haven necessary to prevent a repeat of the Holocaust. Now we get images showing Israel oppressing Palestinian arabs and it is a much higher profile race issue. This gives the small-minded thugs who carry out racist attacks a target. If it wasn't jews it would be (and has been) muslims or sikhs that these people go for.

I doubt if the media image of Israel troubles the Israeli government much if it brings in more jewish immigrants and as long as the US continues to sign loan guarantees.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by notyoueither They are bigots, most likely.

Or they are simply ignorant.

[HershOstropoler]

No, they can't wait. Media focus is one thing, reality often another. IIRC the FBI counts 4 antisemitic hatecrimes per day in the US. Barely makes the media. Of course, if you want to believe the world is mostly inhabited by crazy mass murderers, fine...

Before the recent eruptions of violence in France, there is no indication that a jew in France had a higher risk of being victimized than a jew in the US. How things compare now I do not know, I assume it became worse.

But for the conclusion on general antisemitic sentiment, you would have to explain what has suddenly changed. Or is it perhabs just that a particular segment of antisemites has turned violent.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by CerberusIV
The problem jews face is not about the perception of local jews in France or any other european country, it is about perceptions of Israel. Until the 1980's Israel was presented as protecting jews and was seen as a safe haven necessary to prevent a repeat of the Holocaust. Now we get images showing Israel oppressing Palestinian arabs and it is a much higher profile race issue. This gives the small-minded thugs who carry out racist attacks a target. If it wasn't jews it would be (and has been) muslims or sikhs that these people go for.

I doubt if the media image of Israel troubles the Israeli government much if it brings in more jewish immigrants and as long as the US continues to sign loan guarantees.

All Jews are Israelis and should suffer for the actions of Israel? That, sir, is exactly the root of the problem. Thank you for highlighting it.

Might as well say that all Catholics are slaves of the Pope. I doubt they are, but Northern Europe had a good go-round on that point.

You wish to tolerate this shiete? I do not. I will not suffer those who do, either.

[Maroule]

Originally posted by Oerdin
an assination of a French Jewish leader.

Plain wrong. Who? Can you tell us a name before reproducing example of crap journalism?