Dutch elections (again) tomorrow: dilemma of a Eurocommie

[Robert]

There must be a diplomatic way to solve this problem with Saddam Hussein! The man is such a trustable person! I suggest we give him another warning, I'm sure he'll listen this time!

Besides that, it's not fair towards Russia and France, they have secret trade deals with Iraque! If we attack Iraque France and Russia will lose these deals! That's just not fair

Listen to the fair and good and wise reasons of these two countries!

The USA are evil! They have sneaky plans to get all the oil and might save the people of Iraque during that sneaky oil-attack! It would be so unfair if those people from iraque will be saved from a dictator that has used NBC weapons against them!

conclusion: Go USA!

[S. Kroeze]

Originally posted by CyberShy
There must be a diplomatic way to solve this problem with Saddam Hussein! The man is such a trustable person! I suggest we give him another warning, I'm sure he'll listen this time!

The USA are evil! They have sneaky plans to get all the oil and might save the people of Iraque during that sneaky oil-attack! It would be so unfair if those people from iraque will be saved from a dictator that has used NBC weapons against them!

conclusion: Go USA!

I know there are several excellent reasons to applaud an attack on Iraq. I only will mention some:

• the world economy will sink a into deeper depression than it is now already; as a result many unrewarding companies will go bankrupt
  Yet it is obvious the world economy needs a thorough cleaning before it can grow healthy again.
• further deterioration of the economy will make it more unlike that Bush will be reelected in 2004
• it will hasten the decline of the USA as the world's hegemon power
• it will cut short the existence of Israel by several decades

So I agree that it is an excellent idea to attack Iraq!

Yet it is a pity though, that you have a highly selective memory:
On 22 September 1980 Iraq, led by our dear friend Saddam, invaded Iran. This war lasted until 20 Augustus 1988. My guess is more than a million people -probably more- died as a result. Our dear friend Saddam used many boy-toys (poison gas, rockets etc.), most of them produced by our other dear friends: France, Britain and the USA.
A German company constructed a nuclear reactor for our beloved Iraqi friend, which was intended to be of use for the production of nuclear weapons. This was all done in consultation with our American friends.
After all, one should help one's allies in their fight against the Muslim infidel...

[Ned]

Originally posted by S. Kroeze


I know there are several excellent reasons to applaud an attack on Iraq. I only will mention some:

• the world economy will sink a into deeper depression than it is now already; as a result many unrewarding companies will go bankrupt
  Yet it is obvious the world economy needs a thorough cleaning before it can grow healthy again.
• further deterioration of the economy will make it more unlike that Bush will be reelected in 2004
• it will hasten the decline of the USA as the world's hegemon power
• it will cut short the existence of Israel by several decades

So I agree that it is an excellent idea to attack Iraq!

Yet it is a pity though, that you have a highly selective memory:
On 22 September 1980 Iraq, led by our dear friend Saddam, invaded Iran. This war lasted until 20 Augustus 1988. My guess is more than a million people -probably more- died as a result. Our dear friend Saddam used many boy-toys (poison gas, rockets etc.), most of them produced by our other dear friends: France, Britain and the USA.
A German company constructed a nuclear reactor for our beloved Iraqi friend, which was intended to be of use for the production of nuclear weapons. This was all done in consultation with our American friends.
After all, one should help one's allies in their fight against the Muslim infidel...

And, S, Kroeze, you forgot to mention that Saddam checked with us before invading Kuwait. We said that we did not get involved in Arab disputes.

The next thing you know Saddam has 9 divisions on the Saudi border.
Bush I gets a phone call. "Sir, its the King of Saudi Arbia calling."

[Saint Marcus]

Cybershy´s posts are getting boring

Anyway, in response to Ned:

For better or worse, Holland has nearly always been a supporter of the US foreign policy. The position of the Dutch governement is a lot closer to Britain´s than Germany´s.

Yet, the people don´t see it that way. Polls show a vast mayority against a war without UN approval.

Though that won´t mean much, (CDA) politicians usually don´t listen to the people when it comes to international issues.

Although the CDA is the biggest party, it´s also one of the few supporting a strike against Iraq. As said:

SP is against. GL only in favor if the General Assembly supports a war. PvdA/D66 only in favor if the Security Council supports a war. VVD is against because it will hurt the economy, but will support it if the Security Council agrees on it. CU/SGP in favor, but they only have 5 seats combined. Not sure about the LPF, but they´ll probably support a war as well.

So without a Security Council approval, it´s unlikely our governement will support a war. Two possible scenarios in which we will support a war:

A. PvdA will back down and follow the CDA, in exchange for (say) more money for the health care system.
B. If the economy improves, or if it´s likely a war won´t hurt the economy much, the VVD will support a war.

Sadly...I think our country will support a war when it comes to it, against the will of the people.

[Az]

Yeah! Then I will be able to join a real intifada!

I hope I'll be stationed in Arnhem when I am in the ZOG military.

"let it go, old man. It's not worth dying for!"

[Hueij]

Hm, better take you for a beer then when you are serving here

[Az]

I've heard you got some good beers in Holland.
(though I am more of a vodka fan, myself)

[Ned]

Saint Marcus, et al., I personally truly hope that we can again reach a consensus at the SC about "next steps." The French and German position and the US/UK positions are not irreconcilable. Over the next few days, I believe the issue will come down to access to the scientists and U2 overflights. France and Germany might be pursuaded to signal Saddam that he had better cooperate on these two issues or else they too will join with the US and the UK.

[Saint Marcus]

I too hope we'll see a consensus, but I doubt it will happen.

And of course, Rumsfeld's remark about France and Germany didn't help much.