NK: What Should be Done?

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
They've already rejected the US caving in to them, KH.

No they haven't. They've waved their **** around a bit more to see if anything else shakes loose, and so if they give in now the US will think it's won...

[TCO]

Originally posted by Frogger


Bush doctrine was trying to get into a pissing contest with NK when they found out they'd been cheating.

I thought you were using the common meaning of the term which refers to a broader policy during the first one.

I don't really see how that is our policy or something wrong from us. they were the ones who cheated. Perhaps we should have papered it over like a Clintonite to keep the domestic press in the US happy?

[KrazyHorse]

I don't think they should have ignored it, GP. Did you read what I wrote earlier?

[DanS]

" DanS: I'd like to assume that cutting off food aid is off the table for humanitarian reasons. If you cut it off, you aren't going to cause some kind of revolt, if they could revolt they would, and nothing from the privileged officer class."

Nothing is off the table, including attacking NK's nuke facilities. Cutting off food aid might be useful in some situations, even if the number of situations is few.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Seeker
It still amazes me that we got through the cold war alive if Serb represents the Russian people...

GP: the base in Mapo is about the ONLY thing that gives the Northern agitprop ANY play down here amongst the younger generation, the evangelicals*, and older student protest movement from the 70s.

The big base serves no military purpose that it couldn't do in the countryside. Right now it is like a huge sign that says 'Welcome to a US vassal'.

It is related because in order to solve the NK problem, the US must get SK 'onside' through legitimate, non-coercive means.

There may be some reasons for moving the base. But those are independent of solving the problem in the North.

But on the subject, if it is really a huge deal, maybe we should move. Provided they pay for everything. And our troops have decent conditions. Of course, if it is really so embarrassing to have our guys there, maybe we should pull them out altogether.

[DanS]

It's amazing what the current SK prez paid for his Peace Prize.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Frogger
I don't think they should have ignored it, GP. Did you read what I wrote earlier?

Ok. No.

But that seemed to be the policy wrt Iraq in the first half of the Clinton administration.

[Sava]

Pull all US troops from the region, then hold a summit between SK/NK/US. Stop this damn chest beating!

Bush is so stupid in this matter it isn't even funny. "We can't talk because it would be rewarding bad behavior." STFU george... geezzzus!

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by GP


I thought you were using the common meaning of the term which refers to a broader policy during the first one.

No, just the general impression I get that the US admin feels it can cow anybody. NK won't react the same way other nations will to public rebuffs. They're more likely to dig in their heels...

[TCO]

Originally posted by Frogger


No, just the general impression I get that the US admin feels it can cow anybody. NK won't react the same way other nations will to public rebuffs. They're more likely to dig in their heels...

yeah...I know you feel like that. But you are a lot more sensative to the Bush cowboy thing than I am. I think the main issue is Kim cheating. Not what shape of conference table we have. Or if Mommy hurts Johnny's feelings by telling him to clean his room in a harsh manner instead of an easy manner.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Gatekeeper


I wouldn't know, Serb, as I haven't served in my country's military as of yet. Perhaps you could receive enlightenment by posting that same question to, say, one of the U.S. military veterans who frequent the forum.

My mistake, I thought you are one of them. Don’t know why, perhaps because of your avatar.

I'm just another American who's seen my nation stereotyped one time too many and decided to point out that, yes, America is truly a land of diverse opinion.

And how exactly I stereotyped America in my first post. What was the reason for your first attack?

You didn't read it very well, did you?

I’ve read it twice.

Are you an enlightened, well-educated and open-minded person? No.

And how exactly this insult is related to my reply? You were trying to prove that Americans diverse in their opinions about actions of their government. I said that you don’t have to prove this, because I know this, and you said that I’m uneducated idiot. Great. Where is the logic here?

Ah, yes, you must be one of those people who would need a damn *link* to prove it if I told you the world was round, huh?

Perhaps you didn’t understood what I was asking for?
Once again- you said that report in the media indicates that NK continued its nuclear program in 1998. I said give me the link. You replied with lecture about freedom of press in USA and now continue with insults. Do you have that EXACT link or not? That’s what I asking for- the source that says that NK continued its nuclear program in 1998, not your lectures Sherlock.

Sorry, but there are some things in life that do not need Web links to prove they're true, and the fact that the U.S. media and Americans themselves are divided and opinionated over what Bush, et al., are doing is one of them.

I don’t need link about this. I want link that proves that NK nuclear program continues since 1998.

Well, Hell's bells, Serb. The impression I received from your initial post was one of deliberate ignorance and intentional provocation.

Sometimes first impression could be wrong. Which my words in initial post made such impression?

Wasn't that why DanS told you to answer the question rather than beating around the bush on a peripheral subject?

It was my mistake. I didn’t understand his question. First his said something about Iran nuke plants, then asked- “what would you do?” and I thought he’s asking “what you could do to stop us, if will decide to bomb someone?” and I answered with only possible reply, perfectly knew that if your government will decide to bomb Iran or Iraq, my government will never declare war on USA because of this. The reply was- “to condemn you”. When he explained what he really means, I gave different answer.

So we appear to perhaps be agreeing on something. As for the "why" of matters, I think it was simply timing: Bush, et al., are pre-occupied with Iraq, why not throw a wrench into things and see what happens? Which is exactly what NK has done. Some may subscribe to the notion that NK's leader is insane, but I don't think so. Not after what I've read about him. Spoiled, perhaps, but not insane. Not completely.

And how the hell it contradicts with my opinion? I was talking about the same and you called me an ignorant, anti-American d*ck. WTF?

Hey, cool, learned something new today then. I suspect you're also learning that there are no Russian equivalents for some things said in English as well, hmm?

Hey, cool, learned something new today then. I suspect you're also learning that there are no Russian equivalents for some things said in English as well, hmm?

Yes, I don't know why, but I thought this word come to Russian language from English. My mistake.

I was responding to your first post in this thread. Wasn't that clear from the quoted material? I did see your second post to this thread only after I submitted my post, and I see you only added your second post after being bugged to answer the question at hand (which you didn't do in your initial post, which is what I was replying to).

First of all, as I said it was my mistake. I even wanted to explain this in first line of my second post. Secondly, it was between me and DanS (Whom I know. You know sometimes people who know each other are not completely serious when they are talking. When for example he calls me the “Russian biatch”, I’m not starting to scream- “you racist”, I’m take it as joke and reply accordingly), no one was asking you make your insults based on hell knows what.

So, to answer your question, I'm quite certain that current course will lead to a resolution w/o any sort of U.S.-initiated military action because, well, it's already been thought of and ruled out.

Once again, how the hell it contradicts with what I said? It’s exactly what I was talking about.

Prior to the events of October, I saw no indication that the United States and her allies were going to cut off fuel oil and food aid to NK. Nor did I see any halt in construction of the lightwater reactors, although they are (admittedly) behind schedule.

You know, comrade Kim as leader of whole country have its intelligence too and I guess he knows a bit more then general public like you or me.

Y'know what, Serb? I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and *not* assume you believe I should've been ABORTED during my mother's pregnancy.

No imagination? It’s a joke and an insult at the same time. I added it as I promised.

Just what does "abortation" mean, Serb? Do tell, and put my mind at rest.

Never mind. Forget about this. It’s impossible to translate jokes from one language to another (especially when translator makes typos).


P.S. Not that I capitulate, but you are not so bad, just a bit fast in your judgment. So, how about we forget about this, because we already agreed with each other about original topic and our further talk will lead only to personal insults (not that I don’t like this sport, but this exercise demands a bit of hatred)?
So, how about cease-fire?

[Serb]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Serb's a troll Gatekeeper. I wouldn't take him too seriously.

Like you are not Dino.
Are you still angry?

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Serb
Like you are not Dino.

I try not to make it the only thing I do though.

Are you still angry?

About what?

[Serb]

Originally posted by Seeker
It still amazes me that we got through the cold war alive if Serb represents the Russian people...

I’m just three years older then you are and was a teenager when Cold war “officially” ended. Your luck, I guess.

Anyhow, knowing your opinion about Russians and if Canada was the nuclear power and you were PM, I bet there will be great probability of nuclear holocaust,

[Seeker]

Don't worry, I would've allowed the Russian people to live on in special zones* and Traditional Villages, where tourists could go to see the traditional Russian culture, traditional clothing and songs, peasant crafts, etc.

*Urals? Arkangel region?