NK: What Should be Done?

[DanS]

Frogger: You're way OT here. What should be done now? Not two months ago.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by DanS
Well, it certainly didn't stop it.

Neither has anything the US has done so far, now has it?

The fact is that NK was proceeding at a snail's pace relative to their full potential. The problem was still there, but it was fairly well contained. Once the evidence came to light, though, the initial reaction was a mishandling. Everything since then has seen the US moving towards what should have been done in the first place.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Frogger
That SK's position over the last few years caused NK to continue its nuclear program.

I think that you are reading too much into it, Frogger. I never meant to imply anything of the sort. I have the 94 agreement between the US and NK to blame for that.

The basis for the question is the lack of any real benefit, I have seen, that has offset the costs associated with it. I was wondering what the rationale behind continuing the policy was.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by DanS
Frogger: You're way OT here. What should be done now? Not two months ago.

Now the sit's all frogged up...

If I were the US I'd do some sabre-rattling but at the same time enter into formal negotiations with the NKs.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by DinoDoc

I think that you are reading too much into it, Frogger. I never meant to imply anything of the sort. I have the 94 agreement between the US and NK to blame for that.

The basis for the question is the lack of any real benefit, I have seen, that has offset the costs associated with it. I was wondering what the rationale behind continuing the policy was.

The NKs were well-behaved, as far as NK goes for that entire period. They were lying, but at the same time were not doing enough to be a real regional security threat. That was the result of SK's soft stance and the US-NK agreement (which was badly enforced, to be sure, but which has the merit of stopping NK from completely blowing its stack).

[Ned]

Honestly, it is time for a regime change in NK. The UN should issue an ultimatum and then authorize force if the ultimatum fails. The UN should call on all nations, but particularly the US, China, Russia and SK, to impose a regime change by force of arms on this roque nation.

Whatever we do, it should be through the UN.

[Gatekeeper]

Originally posted by Serb
He is not mad. It's simple trade- "hey George, will stop our nuclear programm (we don't have $$$ for it anyway), if you'll start to send us fuel again. And remember Korea isn't desert and our army isn't Saddam forces, so save your tricks for him, we are not afraid"

Your ignorance is *profound,* Serb.

Surely you've been in touch enough with the news over the last four months or so to realize that North Korea restarted its pursuit of nuclear weapons while it *was* being supplied with fuel oil and food from the United States, South Korea, Japan and probably a few other nations. In fact, reports in the media indicate 1998 as the year when NK resumed research/acquisition/building that was supposedly put on ice by that 1994 framework agreement with the United States and its allies.

Your willful ignorance of the world — especially in matters related to the United States — puts you at the same level as the frothing-at-the-mouth U.S. "patriots" that pop up from time to time.

IOW, you're predictable. And *useless.*

I suggest you don't post again unless you can contribute more than anti-U.S.A. one-liners to discussions such as this, Serb.

Gatekeeper

[Serb]

The time will show.
Do you want a bet?
If US will launch any military operation against NK in near future, I'll eat my hat. Are you ready to do the same if there will be no military operation in 1-2 years (and if NK will not strike first of course)?

[David Floyd]

Don't be silly serb. If you ate your hat, you'd choke on the fur

[Serb]

One more thing.

Originally posted by Gatekeeper
Surely you've been in touch enough with the news over the last four months or so to realize that North Korea restarted its pursuit of nuclear weapons while it *was* being supplied with fuel oil and food from the United States, South Korea, Japan and probably a few other nations. In fact, reports in the media indicate 1998 as the year when NK resumed research/acquisition/building that was supposedly put on ice by that 1994 framework agreement with the United States and its allies.

First of all, it was the fascinating speach- typical American arrogant crap
Reports in the media
Ok, please enlighten me I would like to see how your media portray this.
Link?

Anyhow, even if it's true, I don't remember that in 1998 a NK leaders shouts that NK break international treaties and continues its nuclear programm. Never ask yourself why THEY did it NOW? An "evil bastards" could continue their nuclear programm covertly as they did since 1998 (in accordance with "your media") What is the reason for current political de-march? I think it's trade or blackmail, call it as you wish. If you have another explanation, please let me know.


Oh btw,
next time I'll add a couple of insults, Gatekeeper.

[Serb]

Originally posted by David Floyd
Don't be silly serb. If you ate your hat, you'd choke on the fur

Probably, but somehow, I'm absolutely sure that there will be no military action vs. NK.

And...it wasn't funny David

[David Floyd]

It's 3 am and I have insomnia. Cut me some slack

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Serb
An "evil bastards" could continue their nuclear programm covertly as they did since 1998 (in accordance with "your media") What is the reason for current political de-march?

We confronted them with evidence and they decided to sieze the opportunity to act insane.

[KrazyHorse]

They're not acting insane; they're going to come out of this better than they went in. Writing's on the wall. USA got played, big time.

*Insert photo of NK *****-slapping US around*

[Gatekeeper]

Originally posted by Serb
First of all, it was the fascinating speach- typical American arrogant crap

Shove it where the sun doesn't shine, boy. I speak to the level of the audience — in this case, YOU. Which means I don't bother to go into much detail or depth because I shall likely get a one or two-line response.

I dare you to call me a one-dimensional "rah-rah" type American again, you poor sod. You'd think that, having been around 'Poly since Nov. 2001, you'd have learned a thing or two about some of the posters here. Apparently not.

Reports in the media
Ok, please enlighten me I would like to see how your media portray this.
Link?

Well, gee, Serb, surely you realize that the viewpoints expressed in American media are quite diverse and never truly "with one voice." Surely our global dominance of planetary culture would give you an indication of this? Surely a casual scanning of CNN and FOX News would give you two differing views of what various TV media types are spouting in regards to this situation. Surely a look at the various op-ed pieces in U.S. newspapers and opinions from those in other forms of U.S. journalism — i.e., televison, Internet — would give you a clear picture that there are differing views espoused w/i American media.

IOW, Serb, the media isn't in lockstep here when it comes to opining on foreign relations decisions made by Bush, et al. In fact, the press has a somewhat adversarial relationship with TPTB in the adminstration. But of course, *none* of that is evident to enlightened foreign folks like yourself, huh? All Americans — and their institutions — are monolithic and in lockstep with Der Fuhrer Bush, huh?

If you need links to see the obvious, then you are beyond hope. (Oh, BTW, my newspaper will be covering the anti-war demonstrations today [Saturday] that are planned in parts of the nation, that nation being the United States of America. Y'know, that evil nation where everyone is allegedly a Bush clone?)

Anyhow, even if it's true, I don't remember that in 1998 a NK leaders shouts that NK break international treaties and continues its nuclear programm.

Uhm ... maybe because it was a *covert* program? IOW, they didn't want it broadcast to the world what they were doing?

Never ask yourself why THEY did it NOW? An "evil bastards" could continue their nuclear programm covertly as they did since 1998 (in accordance with "your media")

Did what now? As in reveal the existence of their program? Hey, NK *didn't* reveal it. U.S. diplomats brought up before them in October and NK caught them off guard by actually admitting to it and saying they would continue with the program, regardless of what they signed in 1994. Things have continued from there.

What is the reason for current political de-march? I think it's trade or blackmail, call it as you wish. If you have another explanation, please let me know.

Political de-march? What's that? If it has anything to do with Bush's inclusion of NK in the "Axis of Evil," well, I, too, was wondering about that when he first came out with it. But with the October 2002 revelation of NK's nuke program, I have to wonder if he knew something the general public didn't at the time of the "Axis of Evil" speech; namely, that Bush had solid intelligence that NK indeed was pursuing weapons research/building in violation of the 1994 agreement.

I'm still wondering why Iran was included in the "Axis," so to speak. No longer so much so with NK.

As for NK's reasoning, I suspect it's blackmail. But then again they could truly be aiming to acquire a significant nuclear arsenal, since what they allegedly want in return *now* for stopping their nuke program is apparently the same damn thing they were getting under the 1994 Framework Agreement — namely, fuel oil shipments, food aid (which, BTW, apparently will continue regardless of the political situation) and the continued construction of those light-water nuclear reactors. Why go to all this trouble just to get what you had before?

Oh btw,
next time I'll add a couple of insults, Gatekeeper.

**shrug** Promise? Oh, goody! I bet I can spit farther than you can, too.

Gatekeeper