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  • NK: What Should be Done?

    Talking to a former NK, I was agained reminded of the kind of careless and arbitrary cruelty that lies behind the mere words 'brutal Orwellian dictatorship'.

    Plus, the more I learn about him, Young Kim is not like Khruschev, or Brezhnev, or the other M.A.D. opponents of the US.

    He has been raised in such a bizzare fantasyland from birth that he has done the most dangerous thing: buying in to your own propaganda.

    I think he actually believes that he is a kind of god, that in fact "l'etat c'est moi". If he begins producing numbers of h-bombs, and puts a few on subs (the NKs do have submarines), he could very well impulsively have one detonate in Tokyo Bay, or San Francisco Bay for that matter.

    But what can the US do without causing a massive bloodbath of the Korean peninsula?

    The most attractive option is simply to launch enough cruise missiles at Yongbyon to shut it down. It is big and obvious. Blame any fallout on Kim.

    But he would (of course) view that as an act of war and his next phone call would be to his divisional commanders along the DMZ, sparking a conflict that I believe could kill 3-4 million people in a year or two.

    Assassination is the next most easy. Who will take his place? Isn't it likely that the most belligerant, most 'let's attack now and hang the consequences' officer would seize power?

    Sanctions: Pfft. THis is a crap option. This achieves nothing except death. Even strictly military sanctions might cause what I assume everyone is trying to avoid.

    Do Nothing: Like the diplomat in Lawrence of Arabia said, 'it's usually best'. Let Kim grow old and die, and work to make the NK population richer. Try to push them into the China-Russia model, not the Pol Pot/Stalin model.

    US Troops:
    My view on the US troops is to keep them there, but to pull them back out of the spotlight. They should not be right in the middle of downtown Seoul, no matter how 'fun' it is. Move them to bases in the mountains in the North east of SK. No Korean likes to see the sprawling mass of foreign territory in the middle of the capital. Scale it back, and instruct the troops on the meaning of 'low profile'.
    "Wait a minute..this isn''t FAUX dive, it's just a DIVE!"
    "...Mangy dog staggering about, looking vainly for a place to die."
    "sauna stories? There are no 'sauna stories'.. I mean.. sauna is sauna. You do by the laws of sauna." -P.

  • #2
    Persuade China to invade and install a new, Chinese style communist government.

    Forget about reunion.
    http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

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    • #3
      " But he would (of course) view that as an act of war and his next phone call would be to his divisional commanders along the DMZ, sparking a conflict that I believe could kill 3-4 million people in a year or two."

      This is not clear to me. Attacking SK would bring the end of his regime. If he does not respond, then he keeps his regime. The US deterrent is effective. Otherwise he would have attacked SK already.

      Talking to a former NK, I was agained reminded of the kind of careless and arbitrary cruelty that lies behind the mere words 'brutal Orwellian dictatorship'.

      What did he describe?
      I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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      • #4
        Best solution is to do nothing and withdraw all US troops. Everyone knows that the 2nd Infantry Division would pretty much die if it came to war, so keeping them there is tantamount to murder, should war break out. But if we withdraw them, the 2nd ID won't die, and we won't be in a war that's none of our business.

        Besides, SK would crush NK in any situation I can imagine.
        Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/DaveDaDouche
        Read my seldom updated blog where I talk to myself: http://davedadouche.blogspot.com/

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        • #5
          Originally posted by DanS
          Otherwise he would have attacked SK already.
          Why does that follow? It's the US they have a beef with, not SK.

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          • #6
            I don't buy that. NK has skirmishes all the time with SK.
            I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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            • #7
              I don't think Kim is deluded or mad. He just wants you to think that way. Look at his timing on this whole nuclear thing. He knew exactly how the US would respond - very predictable, I may add - but the US had no idea how he would respond.
              (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
              (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
              (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

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              • #8
                Besides, SK would crush NK in any situation I can imagine.
                How do you figure?
                "I wrote a song about dental floss but did anyone's teeth get cleaner?" -Frank Zappa
                "A thing moderately good is not so good as it ought to be. Moderation in temper is always a virtue, but moderation in principle is always a vice."- Thomas Paine
                "I'll let you be in my dream if I can be in yours." -Bob Dylan

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                • #9
                  SK has double the reserves, much better technology, a much more powerful air force, an exponentially more powerful navy, and most importantly, a far stronger economy.
                  Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/DaveDaDouche
                  Read my seldom updated blog where I talk to myself: http://davedadouche.blogspot.com/

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by DanS
                    I don't buy that. NK has skirmishes all the time with SK.
                    Any nation at war will test the defences of it's enemy. And they are still technically at war.

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                    • #11
                      Re: NK: What Should be Done?

                      Originally posted by Seeker
                      I think he actually believes that he is a kind of god, that in fact "l'etat c'est moi". If he begins producing numbers of h-bombs, and puts a few on subs (the NKs do have submarines), he could very well impulsively have one detonate in Tokyo Bay, or San Francisco Bay for that matter.


                      But what can the US do without causing a massive bloodbath of the Korean peninsula?
                      Stay away from there, because with means like you suggest USA will cause a massive bloodbath for sure.

                      The most attractive option is simply to launch enough cruise missiles at Yongbyon to shut it down. It is big and obvious. Blame any fallout on Kim. But he would (of course) view that as an act of war and his next phone call would be to his divisional commanders along the DMZ, sparking a conflict that I believe could kill 3-4 million people in a year or two.
                      Every thinking human will view it as declaration of war and aggression against independent country. It's pure aggression in accordance with UN chapter and aggressor country (in this case USA) should be punished for this in accordance with international law.

                      Assassination is the next most easy. Who will take his place? Isn't it likely that the most belligerant, most 'let's attack now and hang the consequences' officer would seize power?

                      Go ahead and get him. Easy, my as$. This guy was in my home city not so long ago. He travel only on train, never use planes, and it's not some kind of simple train it's his personal "armored dear Kim carrier" Such amount of security personal I didnt' saw even when Putin was here. I guess this guy knows that somebody wants to see him in the grave and makes all needed precautions to prevent this. IIRC, CIA wasted years to remove Saddam and Fidel. They are still in charge. Easy way, my as$.

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                      • #12
                        Willem: Well then, don't you think that's sufficient enough of a beef?

                        "Every thinking human will view it as declaration of war and aggression against independent country."

                        Iran nuke plants. 'Nuff said.

                        What would you do, Serb?
                        I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Urban Ranger
                          I don't think Kim is deluded or mad. He just wants you to think that way. Look at his timing on this whole nuclear thing. He knew exactly how the US would respond - very predictable, I may add - but the US had no idea how he would respond.
                          He is not mad. It's simple trade- "hey George, will stop our nuclear programm (we don't have $$$ for it anyway), if you'll start to send us fuel again. And remember Korea isn't desert and our army isn't Saddam forces, so save your tricks for him, we are not afraid"

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by DanS
                            Iran nuke plants. 'Nuff said.
                            Pure agression.

                            What would you do, Serb?
                            Condemn you.
                            You think you could bomb to stone age everyone you wish forever? Sooner or later it will cause international isolation of US. And you wonder why anti-Americanism is spreading around the world?

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                            • #15
                              Just answer the question. What would you do, if you were in the US position? The SK position?
                              I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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