American Foreign Legion part 2

[Pekka]

It's just something that is something for me. I can't explain it so that it would make any sense to someone else. I think there's a big chance I'll get killed, injured seriously or at least mentally unstable. But no, I'm not suicidal.
Mercs are lowest scum on the earth? Why? They are not all bad, not all do anything for money, kill women and children. Not at all. Many of them see a fight they want to fight in, because of other reasons. Some fight for money too, but they're not all monsters, they still choose their side. Sure, some of them are scum, but not all of them.

Back to the topic, people share your opinions .

[Jaakko]

From all that I've seen and read, mercs by their very nature tend to fight only the easy battles, meaning that all they generally amount to is butchering ill-equipped militia-type units. Whatta way to make a living.

I also have some serious ethical problems with people that are willing to further war for personal profit.

[Az]

Jaakko: I don't know why he does, but I guess he wants to do something influential with his life.

Pekka: let your heart guide you in whatever you do. I still hope you'll get a decent job.

[Pekka]

To give more precise answer in the mercenary thing..
You have to first realise what it means. Mercenary is not the same as professional killer, or hitman. I would never kill someone for money.
I think the war itself is something .. stupid and should be avoided. War itself is evil. But wars happen all the time, mercs are not causing wars. They are only fighting in them. Now why would one go looking for it, if one can live in his country safe? That I can't answer.. I don't know. I guess some people are different in that way.
I believe in peace, but if some people won't think the same, I won't go waving peace signs, I go kill them, in order to have peace. I'm not starting anything, I want to finish it.

Now, war is mostly business, so is mercs.. they're business men in my opinion. They do contracts, negotiate, and go do their job. Difference is they might have give their life as a price.

Think of a small country. They don't have a good army, they have a powerful enemy. Their survival does not look good. Then mercs come in. They are willing to fight for them, and get paid for it. Most mercs identify the enemy as their enemy too, not just the enemy of the government they're fighting for. Why should they wait in their countries for the enemy to attack, why not go for it and fight the enemy, do combat the first chance they get? These people also are buffers, they slow the enemy to advance in their operations, perhaps even stop some armies advancing to other countries. Not single handeldy, but they do contribute. People who kill women and children and are basically psychos give bad name to honorable business. They shouldn't be thought as mercs, rather as psychos.

Think about their sacrifices? They leave their safe enviroments, and go do some combat in foreign countries, if they're caught by the enemy, what do you think happens to them? I bet they get tortured slowly. They might have a doctor to keep them alive so they can be tortured even more. Enemy doesn't like people who volunteer to kill their troops. If they get killed in some remote location, no one will remember them. There's no funeral. They don't have any benefits when they retire. They might not even get their first pay check. I wouldn't call these people the lowest scum of the earth. Of course it's not that romantic, but they don't start wars, they don't get treated like heroes. And they don't kill innocent civilians any more than regular troops do. And the ones that does, are scum and just happens to be mercs also.

[Pekka]

Jaakko, I don't knwo about that easy battles only thing. They have contracts, and they don't get paid if they don't do the job promised. Also it's not their fault if commanders give them easy jobs. It doens't matter what equipment enemy has, it's not supposed to be fair anyway. Killing is still killing. Besides, why is it killing and not defending the other side too? Defending is mostly killing.

Also, it's not a rule in merc business to do it for the money only. I bet they all still decide their sides with their own ethical points of view, how distorded they might be. I wouldn't fight my friends for any money. However I'd fight my enemy with lower salary.

[Pekka]

For example if Estonia was attacked by China for some reason, I'd prolly go to Estonia and fight the enemy. Why? Estonia is my buddy, China is not. China is not my enemy, but if it comes to fight in Estonia, it becomes my enemy. Now, that's ethical enough for me. Sure, I might get my way to be with other foreigners and make few bucks out of it too.

If NK decides to do some combat with the US, they become my enemy, because the US is my buddy. I'm not fighting so much for the US, I'm fighting for myself. I will fight for my buddies. If two buddies fight, I wouldn't go in then, even if there was a profit for me. It's all personal. Now, if I can't get to fight in the US army, why not then just travel to the place, find other mercs, and start fighting anyway? I'm still fighting my enemy, and that's what I need to do.

edit: ALso, theres a huge chance of serious injury. You lose your leg and get blinded. I think they don't have medical coverage. What is that person going to do then? Return to his country with one leg and a stick, with a past that he can't reveal or he gets to spend some time in jail. He can't do anything, he don't get any benefits. He's pretty much screwed big time. Some people do it for the profit only, but not everyone. So it's not fair to call all the mercs men without honor. I bet it's the second oldest job in the world, they are hated everywhere but still there are some good men in it too.

[Az]

From all that I've seen and read, mercs by their very nature tend to fight only the easy battles, meaning that all they generally amount to is butchering ill-equipped militia-type units. Whatta way to make a living.

that is so untrue. If mercenaries would be sent to the easy battles, and to mass murders, why not just pick up a couple of children and let the have AKs. That's what the african warlords do.

Throughout history, mercs have often been devout and loyal soldiers. It depends on the mercenaries really.
Hannibal used mercenaries. the swiss guard are mercenaries. mercenaries' only fault is that they get paid cash for surviving.

I also have some serious ethical problems with people that are willing to further war for personal profit.

this is a wrong way to think about it. They're not furthering war, but fighting in it. It's their boss' decision to fight or not. I also don't think that Pekka is an immoral person that just joins for personal gain, but will also fight for a side who's goals he can understand and sympathize with. Otherwise he would just becoem a South China sea Pirate.

[Jaakko]

Mercs fight for the money and want to be around to use it, so you rarely if ever see them in the ranks of the outnumbered underdog, because those outnumbered underdogs most often get killed in wars.

As such they just another aggravating factor in the conflict, and often are directly involved in events leading to atrocities. After all, they know better than to bite the hand that feeds them.

Simply put, if they were honorable men, they wouldn't offer to kill people for the highest bidder.

[Pekka]

Azazel, Exaclty my thoughts. I'd fight for the side that I believe in. Or just because the other side is my enemy.
It makes no difference to me if I was in gov troops or not. Mercs don't fuel wars, they are just on the other side. Also I don't believe in easy battles thing, since there's no need to hire mercs to do that. Maybe they're sometimes just too powerful because of the experience in the group and knowledge, makes the enemy look weak, it's not their fault.

Also think about this. If the US allowed foreigners in, like I suggested, to fight in their lines, that would make me kind of merc too? There's personal benefit (low salary, perhaps citizenship and educational benefits), and I wouldn't even get to choose who I fight! How is that any different? Mercs usually are hired by legal govs too.

[Pekka]

Jaakko, Mercs are in everyside of the war. Not just one side. How do you know how merc chooses his side? I heard there were Finns fighting in the ranks of Croats, Serbs AND Albanians. They all paid the highest? Don't think so. Yes, there's a personal benefit to it, is that bad? And, why mercs woudl be hired with biggest money to do the job for the winning side? SUre they have mercs too, but I think the weaker side is hiring more, since they need them and mercs are wanted there.

You make it sound like mercs come in when the war is over, make million bucks to kill the women in the village after regular troops took the enemy soldiers POW.

edit: example. I'm commanding some troops in my country. Bunch of foreign soldiers come in, identyfing themselves as mercs. I ask them why they want to be on our side. First guy says 'You have my symphaties.. I want to fight with you'. I say welcome. Second guy says 'I don't like your enemy, they are my enemy too'. I say welcome. Third guy says 'I'm a devoted Christian, and I think it's time to kick some infidell butt!'. I say welcome.
Fourth guy says 'I'm a psycho, I like killing'. I say get out before I shoot you. Fifth guy says 'I don't care who you are, you are so backwards people and you smell funny, I just like the money'. I say welcome to the winning team!

[Jaakko]

Look, the bottom line is that mercs fight wars for money, without accountability, with an obvious interest in keeping the conflicts going.
They switch sides, perform atrocities, extort money, simply because they can do it without having to explain their actions.
They aren't the in the business to help people, they want to make money.

[Pekka]

Jaakko, some are. Some are not. This does not make every merc a bad person. I'm sure there are many mercs who don't kill civilians for fun and eat their babies. They like the money, sure, who doesn't. It's business.
Some of them switch sides for higher salary, some won't. LIke I said, mercs are in every sides of the war.
They don't have to fuel the wars, they happen anyway. There are no tens of thousands of mercs out there anyway.

[Pekka]

Bottom line is, every merc turned down is a merc for enemy .

[Az]

Look, the bottom line is that mercs fight wars for money,

how does it differ from any other non-conscripted soldier?

[Jaakko]

Mercs as in mercenaries as a whole, as in mercenary companies, not the individual person.

Edit: who do you think hires mercs anyway? It's most always tinhorn dictators who want to have a lil' bit more ground to rule.