Is torture ever justified?

[Dinner]

True. True, but that doesn't anwser the question. Do what is or is not torture and are some less offensive forms of discomfort allowable in your mind. Sleep deprivation, standing for long periods, denying food & water, and what not.

[Sava]

Torture is torture... causing physical afflictions is torture. That is the difference between torture and punishment. Forcing someone to face their demons/guilt, or convincing someone to feel remose and give the information you seek should be the goal. IMO, torture for information is the dark side... quick and easy.

It's a simple proposition for me because I've thought a lot about it. I've heard it justified as "doing evil is different than being evil". That's crap. Doing evil is evil; no matter the circumstances. It's never justified and as I said before, I believe that when we die, in some form or another, we are held accountable for our actions.

It's similar to the whole atheist dilemna of "If it was proven there was no God, would you be bad?" No... I wouldn't. The fear of God, and likewise, the fear of tragedy, don't keep me from being evil/commiting evil acts... I've made a personal decision and commitment to not cross that line. Luckily, I've never been placed in a situation where I've had a moral dilemna, but given time to make the right decision, I would not falter from my beliefs. Without our beliefs and convictions, we are not human... we become animals.

[Dinner]

Doing evil is evil is a nice catch phrase but what qualifies as being evil? What is torture and what is just punishment? We can both agree that cutting off people's ears is torture but is paddling your kids torture? What about Denying sleep or whipping someone or forcing them to march long distances or denying food or placing them out in freezing weather with no clothes or making them stand up for days on end or hanging people upside down or any of a number of things.

Does it matter if the person is perminently disabled versus just temporary discomforted without causing lasting harm? Have some people commited such hainous acts that they deserve to die or be tortured? Lastly can you please give me a clear definition of what torture is?

[Sava]

Because of the wide range of possible torture methods, I'm not going to try and classify every sort of act of physical violence under "punishment" or "torture". I would consider sleep deprivation torture because there are significant physical abuses that occumpany it. The idea of just punishment is very complicated and deserves it's own thread.

And "discomfort" is the wrong term to use, my friend. If you've ever been tortured or felt excrutiating pain before, it's obvious to know the difference between torture and discomfort.

What about Denying sleep or whipping someone or forcing them to march long distances or denying food or placing them out in freezing weather with no clothes or making them stand up for days on end or hanging people upside down or any of a number of things

All torture...

Paddling kids is not torture BTW.

[Underseer]

Originally posted by Sava
well, evil is a slippery slope... if one day its okay to torture a man to save a village, I shudder to think what the next day brings.

I dunno. I'm certainly not willing to dredge up any torture techniques from Europes "colorful" past unless tens of millions of lives hung in the balance.

On the other hand, I'd be perfectly willing to force people to watch Falwell sermons or listen to Donny Osmond CDs as a form of torture/interrogation for lesser crimes.