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Is torture ever justified?

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  • #46
    Originally posted by cyclotron7
    The mods seem to be getting lazy... usually these threads are closed fast.
    Hehe nah, I bet they're as equally intrigued as we are. Maybe they got bets going as to how long the threads will reach 500 posts.

    Comment

    • #47
      OK since this thread will probably be closed soon anyways, I figured I'd get my hypothetical question in.

      Let's just say you're married with children. And let's say someone pulled a Kaiser Sose on your family (kill the children, rape your wife, and all that awful stuff). If the offender got off on a technicality (like searching his home without using Miranda), would you guys consider it wrong to torture him yourself, provided you wouldn't get caught?

      Just curious to see what you all say.

      Comment

      • #48
        Originally posted by Traelin
        OK since this thread will probably be closed soon anyways, I figured I'd get my hypothetical question in.

        Let's just say you're married with children. And let's say someone pulled a Kaiser Sose on your family (kill the children, rape your wife, and all that awful stuff). If the offender got off on a technicality (like searching his home without using Miranda), would you guys consider it wrong to torture him yourself, provided you wouldn't get caught?

        Just curious to see what you all say.
        Hehe, torturing him for weeks wouldn't even be a good enough revenge for something like that. I would definitely do it.

        Being non-religious, and obviously not tied to beliefs like forgiveness and divine justice, I think some people get off very lightly during their lifetime when other people suffer over-proportionately.

        A true ally stabs you in the front.

        Secretary General of the U.N. & IV Emperor of the Glory of War PTWDG | VIII Consul of Apolyton PTW ISDG | GoWman in Stormia CIVDG | Lurker Troll Extraordinaire C3C ISDG Final | V Gran Huevote Team Latin Lover | Webmaster Master Zen Online | CivELO (3°)

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        • #49
          Originally posted by raguil_79


          Hehe, torturing him for weeks wouldn't even be a good enough revenge for something like that. I would definitely do it.

          Being non-religious, and obviously not tied to beliefs like forgiveness and divine justice, I think some people get off very lightly during their lifetime when other people suffer over-proportionately.

          Yeah I'd like to sit there and be idealistic and say "No, I could never do that." But I have to say that if I could get away with it I'd probably do it. Castration wouldn't be out of the question.

          Comment

          • #50
            Originally posted by Traelin
            OK since this thread will probably be closed soon anyways, I figured I'd get my hypothetical question in.

            Let's just say you're married with children. And let's say someone pulled a Kaiser Sose on your family (kill the children, rape your wife, and all that awful stuff). If the offender got off on a technicality (like searching his home without using Miranda), would you guys consider it wrong to torture him yourself, provided you wouldn't get caught?

            Just curious to see what you all say.
            I can't even say that I would want to say no. Hell, I'd probably do it even if I got caught. No one can say for sure, unless they were in such situation.
            "When you ride alone, you ride with Bin Ladin"-Bill Maher
            "All capital is dripping with blood."-Karl Marx
            "Of course, my response to your Marx quote is 'So?'"-Imran Siddiqui

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            • #51
              We better stop all this off topic stuff in here punkbass2000 got banned for 48 hours. Look at the thread labeled
              "When you ride alone, you ride with Bin Ladin"-Bill Maher
              "All capital is dripping with blood."-Karl Marx
              "Of course, my response to your Marx quote is 'So?'"-Imran Siddiqui

              Comment

              • #52
                Originally posted by Traelin
                OK since this thread will probably be closed soon anyways, I figured I'd get my hypothetical question in.

                Let's just say you're married with children. And let's say someone pulled a Kaiser Sose on your family (kill the children, rape your wife, and all that awful stuff). If the offender got off on a technicality (like searching his home without using Miranda), would you guys consider it wrong to torture him yourself, provided you wouldn't get caught?

                Just curious to see what you all say.
                EDIT: Oops, what I meant was searching his home without a warrant, or not reading him his Miranda rights.

                Comment

                • #53
                  Cruelty is never justified. End of discussion.

                  Comment

                  • #54
                    Originally posted by statusperfect
                    Cruelty is never justified. End of discussion.
                    Even when many lives depend on the use of cruelty?
                    Lime roots and treachery!
                    "Eventually you're left with a bunch of unmemorable posters like Cyclotron, pretending that they actually know anything about who they're debating pointless crap with." - Drake Tungsten

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by cyclotron7
                      Even when many lives depend on the use of cruelty?
                      Yes. Justifying you own wrongs by pointing out the wrongs of others is a dangerous path.

                      Edit: And self defense is not cruelty.

                      Comment

                      • #56
                        Originally posted by statusperfect
                        Yes. Justifying you own wrongs by pointing out the wrongs of others is a dangerous path.

                        Edit: And self defense is not cruelty.
                        A lot of people believe that torture, while bad, should be available in a so-called "ticking time bomb" scenario where in very little time many people may die and the only way to prevent it is with the information known to one unwilling person. In such a scenario, would you still maintain that torture should not be used, even if it were the only way to save many lives?
                        Lime roots and treachery!
                        "Eventually you're left with a bunch of unmemorable posters like Cyclotron, pretending that they actually know anything about who they're debating pointless crap with." - Drake Tungsten

                        Comment

                        • #57
                          That's the exact point I clicked on this thread to make...

                          Would you torture someone to save a million people? How could you say "no"? But from another view, how could you say "yes"?

                          But is it the number of people? Is it diferent for a million than 500,000? 50,000? 5,000? 5? 1? Where can you draw the line?

                          It's the situation. People can only do what they have been expected to do all the days of our existence. You evaluate the situation and make your best judgement. It is not a provable answer, it is not an absolute answer. You just decide as best you can in a given situation.
                          Civ2 Demo Game #1 City-Planner, President, Historian
                          Civ2 Demo Game #2 Minister of War,President, Minister of Trade, Vice President, City-Planner
                          Civ2 Demo Game #3 President, Minister of War, President
                          Civ2 Demo Game #4 Despot, City-Planner, Consul

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                          • #58
                            No. Torture doesn't even give reliable information as the person being tortured would say anything to get out of the situation.
                            "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                            -Bokonon

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                            • #59
                              I think the "ticking time bomb" scenario ocurrs far to little to justifiy the torture as legal. It would not be easy to legislate all the instances where it would be proper. In those remote cases, why not just do the torture "off the record"?

                              I once read about a guy who was tortured by the inquisition, later said he would have even "confessed to killing God" after what he went through. Now that must have hurt...
                              A true ally stabs you in the front.

                              Secretary General of the U.N. & IV Emperor of the Glory of War PTWDG | VIII Consul of Apolyton PTW ISDG | GoWman in Stormia CIVDG | Lurker Troll Extraordinaire C3C ISDG Final | V Gran Huevote Team Latin Lover | Webmaster Master Zen Online | CivELO (3°)

                              Comment

                              • #60
                                Originally posted by cyclotron7
                                A lot of people believe that torture, while bad, should be available in a so-called "ticking time bomb" scenario where in very little time many people may die and the only way to prevent it is with the information known to one unwilling person. In such a scenario, would you still maintain that torture should not be used, even if it were the only way to save many lives?
                                When torture is the best possible way to protect yourself / your property / your people. In those cases it is self defense. And self defense is a part of nature.

                                But i can't see a case when torture would be the best possible way. There are better ways of breaking down the willpower of people.

                                Comment

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