Which country is biggest threat to peace?

[Pekka]

Yes, we need to take Saddam out now. Take him to the dark forrest. Behind the sauna. And let the new foreign troops do it

[Sava]

Originally posted by Ming
It is also grossly idiotic to not blame Saddam for his crimes against his own people. Pleople like you who believe his propaganda "that it's all the US's fault that people are dying" is his license to continue allowing his own people to die and suffer. In a way, you are also to blame for the deaths as well, because if people like you didn't believe his crap, he wouldn't have a reason to continue to let his people die for the sake of propaganda.

Okay, drop the stereotype and look at what I've written, then perhaps you can understand me better

Two wrongs don't make a right. Saddam is bad and should be gone. The UN Sanctions are wrong and should be gone. More Iraqis die from the the sanctions than from Saddam. Case closed. It isn't black and white Ming, just because I'm not a war-drum, mindless, flag waving buffoon, doesn't mean I'm a flower power, pinko, peacenik either

[Ming]

You are making assumtions again... since when have I been screaming for an attack... oh that's right, heaven forbid the truth should effect your biased mind.

Let's see...

Saddam started a war...
Saddam surrendered...
Saddam agreed to terms...
Saddam didn't follow the terms he agreed too...
Sanctions were put in place...
Saddam still hasn't followed the terms needed to lift the sanctions...
Saddam spends his now limited resources on himself and his military, allowing his people to starve and die. He blames the US for all the deaths...

More people are dying because of Saddam... He uses the sanctions as propaganda and allows his people to die so that he has a better message...

Yes Sava... blame the US. He could have those sanctions lifted in a heartbeat. All he has do is HONESTLY come clean. But he won't. He would rather see his own people suffer so people like you can believe his little stories.

Again... people like you are as responsible for the suffering in Iraq as anybody... because you continue to believe his lies. Without you, he wouldn't continue allowing his people to suffer.

Maybe if you read what I've written instead of believing Saddam's lies... you will know where I'm coming from

[Main_Brain]

Well but who comes after Saddam?
It seems like the Choice between a Dictatorship supressing the Majority and a Fundametalistic State closly related to Iran I guess...
I wonder wheter the US (goverment&corporations) would care about ME if the Oil was in Africa?


//ME like Middle East not like in 'me' but you already did know that didn't ya?

[Ned]

Originally posted by Main_Brain
Well but who comes after Saddam?
It seems like the Choice between a Dictatorship supressing the Majority and a Fundametalistic State closly related to Iran I guess...
I wonder wheter the US (goverment&corporations) would care about ME if the Oil was in Africa?


//ME like Middle East not like in 'me' but you already did know that didn't ya?

On this point, the answer is probably no. I believe Bush I would have been content to simply denouce Saddam for taking Kuwait if Saddam had not moved nine divisions to Kuwait's border with Saudi Arabia. The Saudi's gave Bush a call and asked for help. We sent in the Airforce immediately and then began putting together the coalition that was to eventually eject Saddam from Iraq - over strong Democrat opposition, I might add.

So no, the US would not have gotten involved in Africa because we have no vital allies in Africa. We are, however, allied with Saudi Arabia - because of OIL.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Pekka
Yes, we need to take Saddam out now. Take him to the dark forrest. Behind the sauna. And let the new foreign troops do it

Pekka, it's a shame that we don't allow visa's and green cards to aliens who actually apply to and are accepted by the US Armed forces. Undoubtedly, the quality of such a soldier would often be as high or higher than many US citizen recruits.

Perhaps now that we have a Republican Congress we can fix this. The Democrats tended to view the US military as an employer of last resort for down-on-their luck Americans. Obviously, the last thing they wanted to do would be to allow aliens to take American JOBS.

[Pekka]

Ned, I agree with you. I read from somewhere in the internet maybe 6 months ago, that some politician was saying that the US should open borders to anyone who wants to fight for the country. I think it would be a good plan. Maybe even make the service minimum of 6 years, but they'd be neutralized after 3 years, and they'd get some education in their spare time, college degree or something. These people would become valuable to the country. I mean, isn't that American way? I must be.

I keep my fingers crossed someone thinks this idea and they pass new laws fast. The fact remains, US needs more soldiers. Good for economy. Good future tax payers. 3 flyes at the same time.

It would make one hell of a campaign 'uncle sam needs you! Come and join the fight for the free world!' or some crap like that. This will happen at some point, I just hope it would come soon

[Main_Brain]

Regarding SaudiArabia:
Are Americans aware of the Problems there Stationing of Troops created there? The Ruling ,mhh well Monarch Family would propably be the most correct name, has alot of Pressure from the Streets and the Congress/Ruling Scheiks to ask US Military to leave, whcih he of course cant do. It seems people there respect the US for saving them but feel mhh well 'occupied'. Also cultural Problems I guess.

I also heard that because of Logistic problems the US mostly has equipment there (speak tanks 'n stuff) because the Merchant Navy couldn't move this military Equipment fast enough in Time of Crisis? Is that true?

So well my Question would be would you agree that US Troop presence in the Gulf Region is generally problematic to Arabian States?

[Pekka]

Now I'm on a mission. I will send e-mails to people who could put some wind under this idea. Sure i'm a furriner, but so what. It could give some politician even career to push it forward.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Pekka
It would make one hell of a campaign 'uncle sam needs you! Come and join the fight for the free world!' or some crap like that. This will happen at some point, I just hope it would come soon

I made a thread on this awhile ago. The general consensus was that an American Foreign Legion would be a bad idea.

[Ned]

Pekka, Write to Rumsfeld.

[Pekka]

Can you give link to it, so I can read and make it sound like a good idea?

[Pekka]

Ned, hey that is a good idea. I will. I just think he has secretaries screening it and they might drop mine from going to him, but I will definitely give it a try. I think I should focus on republicans.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Main_Brain
Regarding SaudiArabia:
Are Americans aware of the Problems there Stationing of Troops created there? The Ruling ,mhh well Monarch Family would propably be the most correct name, has alot of Pressure from the Streets and the Congress/Ruling Scheiks to ask US Military to leave, whcih he of course cant do. It seems people there respect the US for saving them but feel mhh well 'occupied'. Also cultural Problems I guess.

I also heard that because of Logistic problems the US mostly has equipment there (speak tanks 'n stuff) because the Merchant Navy couldn't move this military Equipment fast enough in Time of Crisis? Is that true?

So well my Question would be would you agree that US Troop presence in the Gulf Region is generally problematic to Arabian States?

Main_Brain, I agree we really need to get our troops out of the ME. But the only way we can do that is by elminating the original problem that caused us to be there in the first place. It really is a travesty that we left Saddam in power when we really had the opportunity to finish the war. Unfortunately, we thought we could simply leave our troops there indefinetely - like in Germany or South Korea. But, obviously, the culture clash with the people of the ME is too severe making our long term presence impossible.

Hopefully, Bush II will act soon to correct an historical mistake. As soon a vialble successor regime is installed in Iraq, we can pull our troops out of Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. As soon as Iraq is stable, I hope we withdraw from there as well.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Pekka
Can you give link to it, so I can read and make it sound like a good idea?

Check your pms!