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Between a rock and a hard place

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  • #61
    "And why would it be so hard to go the table and let them look like they got what they wanted?"

    Because our entire defense is based on no nuclear blackmail. Not only would he own our ass, but everybody else would too.
    I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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    • #62
      Everyone would own everyone else's asses and then the whole world stability system would go down the tubes.
      We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln

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      • #63
        Dan, if you come back from the table with something that looks like Agreed Framework II (which is what NK wants, along with a non-agression pact) then everybody else understands what happened. But saying "we won't negotiate until you say you're sorry" to a country like NK is a recipe for failure.
        12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
        Stadtluft Macht Frei
        Killing it is the new killing it
        Ultima Ratio Regum

        Comment

        • #64
          Right. Even a war where millions got killed would be worth it to save the detterent.
          I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

          Comment

          • #65
            And I agree that backing down now makes the US look weak. So wouldn't it have been a good idea to stay at the table 3 months ago? It stays behind mostly closed doors, NK gets a little bit of what they want, has to agree to stricter inspections?
            12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
            Stadtluft Macht Frei
            Killing it is the new killing it
            Ultima Ratio Regum

            Comment

            • #66
              Frogger: No, come back with Agreed Framework I, minus their nuke program. What can I say beyond this? Are we to throw out our whole security arrangement because of one guy who acts like a nutjob? No.
              I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

              Comment

              • #67
                Originally posted by DanS
                Right. Even a war where millions got killed would be worth it to save the detterent.
                That's good, because that's what you're looking at with NK.
                12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                Stadtluft Macht Frei
                Killing it is the new killing it
                Ultima Ratio Regum

                Comment

                • #68
                  Is it a coincidence that 60,000 troops were sent to the Gulf at the same time the oil shipments were being thrown back on the table?

                  Remember that Iraq plays totally into this equation.
                  We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln

                  Comment

                  • #69
                    "So wouldn't it have been a good idea to stay at the table 3 months ago? It stays behind mostly closed doors, NK gets a little bit of what they want, has to agree to stricter inspections?"

                    No, we did the right thing. How could we accept that NK had a secret nuke program? Can everybody in the NPT do it, without fear of international condemnation?
                    I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                    Comment

                    • #70
                      Ya, that was the point, to get it out in the open.
                      We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln

                      Comment

                      • #71
                        "That's good, because that's what you're looking at with NK."

                        And that's why we have troops there. It's a dangerous business. Always has been. It was with the Soviets too.

                        Has everybody lost their kahunas post fall of the wall?
                        I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                        Comment

                        • #72
                          Originally posted by DanS
                          Frogger: No, come back with Agreed Framework I, minus their nuke program. What can I say beyond this? Are we to throw out our whole security arrangement because of one guy who acts like a nutjob? No.
                          In other words you want them to stop building nukes? No crap. So again, you're left with two choices: fight them, or give them enough stuff that they let inspectors back, hopefully with more reach this time. This is obvious now, and was obvious 3 months ago. And is what I said in the first post. So if you don't want to fight them (which the US admin has made plain; too plain, actually) then you have to negotiate. And so how is saying you won't negotiate until they admit they're wrong to a country like NK helpful?
                          12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                          Stadtluft Macht Frei
                          Killing it is the new killing it
                          Ultima Ratio Regum

                          Comment

                          • #73
                            The original plan was to completely isolate them.


                            And that does include Russia, China, and Japan.
                            We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln

                            Comment

                            • #74
                              Originally posted by DanS
                              "So wouldn't it have been a good idea to stay at the table 3 months ago? It stays behind mostly closed doors, NK gets a little bit of what they want, has to agree to stricter inspections?"

                              No, we did the right thing. How could we accept that NK had a secret nuke program? Can everybody in the NPT do it, without fear of international condemnation?
                              Wouldn't it have been better to solve the problem there? They lose their nukes, get more stuff. Only way they agree to it...
                              12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                              Stadtluft Macht Frei
                              Killing it is the new killing it
                              Ultima Ratio Regum

                              Comment

                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Ted Striker
                                Ya, that was the point, to get it out in the open.
                                I see that as a bad idea in this case. Very bad.
                                12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                                Stadtluft Macht Frei
                                Killing it is the new killing it
                                Ultima Ratio Regum

                                Comment

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