IL Gov. Ryan pardones four, communtes 156 death sentences

[chequita guevara]

Unfortunately, the IL constitution doesn't allow for referendums on anything except election matters (they really outta change that). Before 9/11, there was probably a very good chance that IL voters would have agreed to do away with the DP, given how many wrongly convicted men had been set free.

[DanS]

"Unfortunately, the IL constitution doesn't allow for referendums on anything except election matters (they really outta change that)."

That's why I said indirect. Ryan brought up a serious situation and put a moratorium on executions. This was a good move. He should have made it explicit that this was going to be decided by his successor. The candidates would have then fashioned their platform accordingly, and then there would have been a fair vote.

I think he dealt with everything after the moratorium poorly.

[Chris 62]

I never said nor cared what his party was Che.

Wrong is wrong.

Without the rule of law, society does not exsist.

If innocent men have been convicted, the APPEALS COURTS exsist to correct this.
If they don't work, fix them, not ignore nearly 150 trial case decisions.

I also think it's time that "pardons" be removed from elected officials, this is yet another example of the misuse of this power (Clinton was another).

[DanS]

Don't go overboard, Chris. He only ignored the trial decisions on the 4 pardons.

[Chris 62]

Not sure how Ill law works Dan, in NY, the DP has to be unanamous decision by jury, and the judge can STILL overule it.
It's NEVER automatic.

As governer, he could have ordered that all cases be reviewed, not going overboard Dan, read what the article says, he overuled 156 cases.
THAT is ignoring the trail decisions.

[chequita guevara]

This was carried out by due process, Chris. It's within the governor's powers to do what he did. Your problem, therefore, is with the law.

Clinton wasn't the only one who abused his pardon power. Bush I did it when he pardoned all the people convicted with Iran-Contra.

Also, in the cases of the men who were pardoned, the court system had already failed. Judges tend to be former cops and prosecutors, and they tend to be rather biased against claims of police torture and prosecutorial misconduct, even when there's clear evidence. It took Rolando Cruz four trials for the truth to finally come out that the police had manufactured evidence against him, while another man (Brian Dugan--who killed a nurse a few miles from my childhood home home--her body was found in the abandoned car of a friend of mine) had confessed to killing the girl Cruz was accused of killing (the confession was inadmissable because it was made under hypnosis and he refused to testify in court without immunity--he was already serving a life sentence).

[Ming]

*bump* just for AH

[Boris Godunov]

While I would prefer to see a politician taking a moral stand like Gov. Ryan while his career was still in play, making it a more courageous act, I applaud him for this. One step closer to ending the barbarism.

[Shi Huangdi]

I don't think it's right that one guy trumps the will of an entire state like that. But if those men really were innocent, you really gotta wonder how many people sentenced to crimes other then death penalty are there innocently.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
I don't think it's right that one guy trumps the will of an entire state like that.

As che pointed out, the will of the state is also that he should have that power.

Who's to say it wasn't the will of most people in the state that he commute the sentences? I'd like to see what polls show in terms of how the people of Illinois feel about it.

[Ming]

The problem was, he asked the legislature to revise the system... make the changes needed to help protect the innocent... and they ignored him. They gave him very little choice. With the exception of the scandels (none of which happened while he was governor) hanging over his head, he was a pretty decent Governor. This, as one of his final acts is another good one.

[chequita guevara]

I do wonder about that, a lot actually, BD. If Texas' numbers are anything to go by, at least as far as faulty trials for defendents goes, as many as 1/3rd of all prisoners could actually be wrongly convicted. That's just capital cases, however.

BTW, Aaron Patterson, one of the men who was pardoned, claims he never confessed even under torture. He was convicted of setting a fire on his back steps that killed his wife and children. He was the only one from the second floor who got out alive.

[ravagon]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov

As che pointed out, the will of the state is also that he should have that power.

Indeed. For the moment anyway. It'll be interesting to see the next Governors reaction to this and whether or not such powers are moderated in future.

Who's to say it wasn't the will of most people in the state that he commute the sentences? I'd like to see what polls show in terms of how the people of Illinois feel about it.

Ditto. And this would probably determine the next Governors reaction.

[Ramo]

Wutang!

The pardon is a power of the Governor, so there are no problems with the "rule of law," etc.

[Shi Huangdi]

"

As che pointed out, the will of the state is also that he should have that power."

That power is meant to individually overturn unfair cases, not get rid of an entire punishment.

"I do wonder about that, a lot actually, BD. If Texas' numbers are anything to go by, at least as far as faulty trials for defendents goes, as many as 1/3rd of all prisoners could actually be wrongly convicted. That's just capital cases, however."

Right I had a thread on this a while back and most seemed to agree with me there are some really ****ed up problems in our justice system. If that's the amount of people who could be wrongly convicted in capital cases where the most attention is given too, the most resources are spent on, and an appeal to the highest state court is given, how inaccurate is the system on non-DP cases where less resources are spent on finding the truth?