Is Offensive War Ever Justified?

[Ned]

Originally posted by Ramo
Why is the idea of states judging other states any scarier than the idea of people judging other people? It can be abused by immoral states, just as it can be abused by immoral people. It's the responsibility of the people in the state to see that it is not being abused. If they don't have the will or power to do that, why does it matter if the state uses such an excuse?

It doesn't matter if Hitler went to war with the rest of the world. I was using Nazi Germany as an example. Even if he didn't declare war on state, I think war against Germany would've been perfectly moral provided there would be a net increase in freedom.

However, the war did not result in an increase in freedom, did it? The whole of Eastern Europe fell under the Iron Curtain. Germany was destroyed. Tens of millions died, inlcuding six million Jews.

WWII should have been avoided, IMHO.

[Zero]

I agree with Ned again! It's good to see recently that I am spending less time arguing with Ned .... anyway its a matter of perspective.

[Ramo]

What I disagree with is the underlying general idea: That there is a universal morality that we should all adhere to, and there should best be a world state to enforce that morality. This is too much of a simplification, and put into practice leads to the situation we have, namely the US usurping the role of a world policeman, though with no legitimacy whatever. The only nation that has been tried and convicted for terrorism ending up as police chief. Would be funny, if it weren´t so depressing.

Yes, I think there's a basic universal morality that we should all adhere to. Murdering lots of innocent people isn't a good thing for instance. A world state is also fine, as long as it has minimal authority and is well-controlled by the pople of the world (i.e. not the UN). These ideas don't lead to any abuse by themselves. The oppression of people by an external state has existed as long as states have existed.

However, the war did not result in an increase in freedom, did it? The whole of Eastern Europe fell under the Iron Curtain.

Whereas it would've been better under Hitler? Stalin was pretty bad, but he was still better than Hitler, and there was be a huge improvement after Kruschev took power.

Germany was destroyed.

Tens of millions died, inlcuding six million Jews.

And how many more would've died had Hitler finished his final solution?

WWII should have been avoided, IMHO.

And Hitler would've stopped with his demands after Danzig was added to his lebensraum, right?

[Ned]

Ramo, I think war could have been avoided if the Brits had agreed to European conference to revisit Versailles - that he, Roosevelt, would attend.

Roosevelt was Hitler's equal and could not have been harrassed into unwarranted concessions. But the best part would be the US guarantee that would have emerged from any such conference. Hilter really did not want to get into a war with the US.

[Edan]

Re: Is Offensive War Ever Justified?

Originally posted by David Floyd Is it ever justified to fight an aggressive, offensive war?

Sure. In WW2, we fought offensively on the European front - Britain fought offensively once it was no longer in danger. Russia fought past it's border. We all fought into germany, offensively. So yes, it can be justified.

[Inverse Icarus]

Re: Re: Is Offensive War Ever Justified?

Originally posted by Edan


Sure. In WW2, we fought offensively on the European front - Britain fought offensively once it was no longer in danger. Russia fought past it's border. We all fought into germany, offensively. So yes, it can be justified.

i think he means wars of aggression rather than offensive wars.