North Or South Korea: Which is Worse?

[Zero]

Originally posted by Kontiki


That wouldn't be too hard, would it? I mean, other than the few hundred idiots in North America who actually contemplate buying a Kia or Hyundai, how many South Korean products are there on our shores? I'm reasonably confident that I've never bought anything made in South Korea, and it's not by choice.

you never check who made your shoes, socks and sweaters do you?

[Kontiki]

Originally posted by Calc II


you never check who made your shoes, socks and sweaters do you?

Well, I was exagerating, but...

Maybe it's different in the US, but here in Canada, most of our athletic shoes are made in either the Philippines or Vietnam. Really good clothing (suits, shoes) comes from Europe, but alot of the more common or cheaper stuff comes from Taiwan, Hong Kong, China, and the aforementioned two countries. I don't recall ever seeing anything I've owned being made in SK. I could well be wrong, but it's safe to say that if I am, it's very, very little.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Kontiki


Having troops in theatre is a much stronger statement than simply extending verbal or documented guarantees of security. Without US troops in Korea, there is always the chance the US wouldn't really come riding to the rescue. As long as they are there, the only way NK can make serious moves against SK is to directly attack US soldiers. If that happens, there isn't a chance in hell that the US would stay out of it. You're also right about having logistical bases for getting troops in, although those bases right at or very near to the DMZ would be pretty useless if an actual war broke out - too close to the action. I'm not sure where all the US bases in Korea are, but I'd be willing to bet that at least one or two are a little further south so that additional forces could arrive there when the shooting started.

Kontiki, why don't we replace U.S. troops with Canadian troops? Surely the United States would come to Canada's rescue if North Korea attacked and the Canadian troops were being overwhelmed. - that is, if South Korea also asked for our help.

[DanS]

I think it's important to recite some facts...

American investors inject the large majority of foreign investment into Korea.

The US has a very sizeable population of citizens (3-4 million IIRC), that are Korean-born or just one generation removed.

North Korea has less than half the population of South Korea, and about 1/40th the economy of South Korea but a more sizeable army.

The US is Korea's largest foreign market, taking 22% of its exports, almost twice as much as the next guy.

Korea is an export-driven economy.

The US fought a war under the auspices of the UN, and lost a lot of lives, in order that at least South Korea would be free.

The point is, there are lots of ties between us and pulling out would have a ripple effect. As stated in the article, if they don't want us there, then we're gone. That's the way these things work. But we're going to be damn sure that this is what the Koreans want. And I'm skeptical that an overwhelming majority want us gone.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Calc II
No, N.K does not propagandize such mesage to young S.Ks and S.Ks propagandize heavily to treat all N.K messages as garbage. So you are wrong, but Many S.Ks beleive what you say to be true.

Please, dont bring your pro-israeli junk in here. anti-us semetism doesnt always have something to do with israel.

Calc II, I'm not saying that North Korea propaganda is responsible for the common belief in South Korea that the United States is responsible for the division of Korea. What I am saying is that there's a general leftist revisionism of history that blames the United States and/or Israel for all the world's problems.

You might even see some of these leftist revisionists begin to post in this thread with absolute proof that the US is responsible for the division of Korea.

[Zero]

Originally posted by Ned

You might even see some of these leftist revisionists begin to post in this thread with absolute proof that the US is responsible for the division of Korea.

There are extreme lefts as there are extreme rights. If you are left, you tend to think, more leftward a statement is made, more tolerable it becomes, even if its extreme. Extreme statement of left is always easier to tolerate than extreme right if your are more left. Same goes to rightists.

So obviously, if you lean more with the US, you will see as statement moves more Anti-US statement, it becomes more intolerbale to you. But it would not apply in the same effect if statement moved more Pro-US, even if it exceeds your level.

But yes there are Extreme lefts and rights here. But you will always find that statements made here will be more left than it is, if you are right.

Calc II, I'm not saying that North Korea propaganda is responsible for the common belief in South Korea that the United States is responsible for the division of Korea.

It was to correct whatever you have quoted. Which said. N.k's taught young S.k's such theory.

[Ned]

Originally posted by DanS
I think it's important to recite some facts...

American investors inject the large majority of foreign investment into Korea.

The US has a very sizeable population of citizens (3-4 million IIRC), that are Korean-born or just one generation removed.

North Korea has less than half the population of South Korea, and about 1/40th the economy of South Korea but a more sizeable army.

The US is Korea's largest foreign market, taking 22% of its exports, almost twice as much as the next guy.

Korea is an export-driven economy.

The US fought a war under the auspices of the UN, and lost a lot of lives, in order that at least South Korea would be free.

The point is, there are lots of ties between us and pulling out would have a ripple effect. As stated in the article, if they don't want us there, then we're gone. That's the way these things work. But we're going to be damn sure that this is what the Koreans want. And I'm skeptical that an overwhelming majority want us gone.

DanS, regardless of whether the South Koreans has turned anti-American as a whole, maybe it is best United States withdrew anyway. The South Korean economy is now sufficiently strong to pay for a military adequate to defend itself from its barbarian neighbor to the North. Let's call this "Vietnamization II."

In 1950, the South Koreans had no chance of the defeating the North by itself. That simply is not the case that it today -- especially if we give the South Koreans the lead time necessary to prepare for war.

As to the American investment in South Korea, those who feel that the South Koreans cannot defend themselves can sell out and leave.

I personally think it is about time that we stop fighting Asian ground wars simply to defeat communism. I for one really learned a lesson from Vietnam.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Calc II

It was to correct whatever you have quoted. Which said. N.k's taught young S.k's such theory.

My post was simply a short quote from the lead article. It was not a contention of mine. It was a statement by the author of what he beleived to be true about why the South Koreans have become so anti-American.

[Kontiki]

Originally posted by Ned


Kontiki, why don't we replace U.S. troops with Canadian troops? Surely the United States would come to Canada's rescue if North Korea attacked and the Canadian troops were being overwhelmed. - that is, if South Korea also asked for our help.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. First, that doesn't address the "wiggle" room issue of the US not coming to the other country's aid. I don't see why the US would be any more willing to come to Canada's aid than to SK's. I'll admit that either is likely to receive US aid, but my point was that it is a stronger statement to have US troops there, so that it would be a direct attack against the US. Second, why would Canada want to send troops to Korea to replace US troops? We don't have the military manpower or equipment to replace the US presence, nor the desire to put our ass on the line like that.

I think you are misinterpretting my post as me claiming that the US should be there. I was actually responding to Arrian who was wondering if the US could just pull out and extend security guarantees to SK, and if doing so would be just as effective as having US troops in SK.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Kontiki


I'm not sure what you're getting at here. First, that doesn't address the "wiggle" room issue of the US not coming to the other country's aid. I don't see why the US would be any more willing to come to Canada's aid than to SK's. I'll admit that either is likely to receive US aid, but my point was that it is a stronger statement to have US troops there, so that it would be a direct attack against the US. Second, why would Canada want to send troops to Korea to replace US troops? We don't have the military manpower or equipment to replace the US presence, nor the desire to put our ass on the line like that.

I think you are misinterpretting my post as me claiming that the US should be there. I was actually responding to Arrian who was wondering if the US could just pull out and extend security guarantees to SK, and if doing so would be just as effective as having US troops in SK.

Kontiki, I agree that if we are going to defend South Korea, it is best that we leave our troops in place. If we withdraw, it must be with the intention that we never return. It is about time, IMHO, for the South Koreans to defend themselves.

[Comrade Tribune]

Re: Re: Re: North Or South Korea: Which is Worse?

Originally posted by Ned
Of course, let's add Austrian products to the boycott list.

Go ahead; there´s not much we export to the United States, so you can boycott our goods all day. We prefer trading with the civilized world anyway.

[Zoid]

Originally posted by Azazel
North Korea is a lost cause. It's not a close call. At least, I could fly out of south Korea if I wanted to. Trade unions are NOT everything.

Yeah, I guess. But on the other hand actually LIVING in either Korea would be pretty damn hard if you were in any way critical to the government. In NK they shoot you like a dog. In SK they shoot you with rubber bullets and throw you in jail. Still one up for SK but a crappy choice nevertheless

[DanS]

"DanS, regardless of whether the South Koreans has turned anti-American as a whole, maybe it is best United States withdrew anyway. The South Korean economy is now sufficiently strong to pay for a military adequate to defend itself from its barbarian neighbor to the North."

I'm somewhat sympathetic to that view, but I have no idea whether or not the underlying fact--that they could defend themselves--is true or not. Connor seems to suggest that they can't, at least short-term.

[Zoid]

Originally posted by Azazel
Hey, We lefties need to balance the trolling score. It's hard with you guys having an MVP like Albert, but we're trying.

Too bad (?) I have no tenacity for trolling. I can´t keep it up for more than a few posts at a time... We really need a Speer or a Fez on our team to even things out

[Drake Tungsten]

We really need a Speer or a Fez on our team to even things out

You and the Comrade are the equal of Speer and Fez, I assure you. Don't sell yourself short.