Just Saw 'Two Towers'

[Imran Siddiqui]

The only reason I can think of putting down Faramir is to build Sam up. His little speech makes him look better and especially with Frodo commenting how he couldn't do it without Sam.

All this is supposed to lead up to my favorite part of the LOTR, the aftermath of Shelob's attack.

[Arrian]

Tear down Faramir to build up Sam... interesting, I never considered that. Still a bad change, IMO.

-Arrian

[Imran Siddiqui]

That's the only possible justification, Arrian. I mean Sam does make that grand speech in the books (about believing there is some hope in the world) IIRC. Also remember in the sillyness of Osgilliath, it was Sam that stopped Frodo from putting on the ring and giving it back to the Nazgul (which was dumb as Hell) I think PJ wanted us to think of Sam much more as a hero, in light of what he is going to do in ROTK.

Though I agree... bad, bad change. In some respects Faramir was the symbol of why the race of men should be saved from this dark threat.

[Demerzel]

Sam gets plenty enough screen time, Faramir isn't there for long but you have to empathise with the character or you'll just not care about him. His is supposed to be a tragic story, he was never good enough for his father - Boromir was the only one Denethor cared about and since his death things are worse for Faramir. Faramir has survived the call of the ring, but unlike the book where he is Gandalf's protege and resists the ring wisely, in the film he only lets them go because Sam spouts some pretty talk. bah. i liked the faramir in the book a lot but the faramir in the film i couldn't care less for

[DanS]

Actually, I'm not too down on the film for Faramir. By dwelling on the pull of the ring, Faramir comes out on par with Aragorn, who also "refused" the pull of the ring at the parting of the fellowship.

In the books, it was almost like the pull of the ring was nonexistant for Faramir--he says he would have never taken it anyway. In the book we have the luxury of being able to fill this stuff in, but a film has to make much more explicit.

I loved the line that they kept in for Faramir, but it was much more menacing in the movie... "A chance for Faramir, captain of Gondor, to show his quality."

Edit: I do think it important to show Osgiliath in this movie, since it will link it in place using the battle map. Plus, I think Osgiliath was done super well. Like the ruins of Rome, but better.

[Lars-E]

Is the dvd collection with the extra scenes worth buying?

[Arrian]

After I got home from watching TTT, I re-read part of the book where Frodo, Sam and Faramir have their conversation, and it's just infinitely better the way Tolkein wrote it. Several lines are word-for-word or very close to it, but construed differently in the movie.

Faramir was supposed to be a better man than Boromir, though his father doesn't see it. He is one of the few men who can resist the lure of the ring, and that makes him special. The blood of Numenor is strong with this one...

-Arrian

[rah]

Originally posted by Lars-E
Is the dvd collection with the extra scenes worth buying?

Definately YES>
The extra scenes are very useful. In the extra scenes you get to see the entire gift giving and an explanation of the gifts, where in the regular movie the only gift and explanation you see is the star. Otherwise you see them all wearing similar cloaks and you have no idea (unless you've read the book) that they're special elven cloaks with special properties, (which they didn't take advantage of in the first book ) It's all about the little things that help make it more special. Quite worth it.

RAH

[Rogan Josh]

A agree that Faramir was much better in the book. I leaned over to my wife when Faramir appeared and confessed he was my favourite character from the books. I looked pretty stupid until I had explained that they had changed him so much.

It seems to me that there will be a lot more to cram into the ROTK than you all think. Things life the slaying of Theoden by the Nazgul who is subsequently wiped by Eowyn; the two big battles; Aragorn's transformation to King; the splendour of Minas Tirith. And lets not forget Shelob! (I suspect the end scene in Mt Doom will be very powerful...)

[Arrian]

What about the paths of the dead? Are they getting cut? And is everything post-Mt. Doom cut too?

Yeah, RotK is gonna be hectic.

-Arrian

[rah]

I read that they will minimize the "scourging of the Shire" to leave room for other things.



That's one decision I can applaud.

RAH

[Imran Siddiqui]

What about the paths of the dead? Are they getting cut? And is everything post-Mt. Doom cut too?

Yes and (basically) yes.

No scouring of the Shire... screw you Rah!

I liked that part!

[hexagonian]

Originally posted by Lars-E
Is the dvd collection with the extra scenes worth buying?

Yeah, given that it ended up costing me about $1200 - new DVD player, 32'' flat-screen TV, additional speakers...

But I was looking for an excuse to get all that stuff anyhow.

[hexagonian]

Originally posted by Arrian
After I got home from watching TTT, I re-read part of the book where Frodo, Sam and Faramir have their conversation, and it's just infinitely better the way Tolkein wrote it. Several lines are word-for-word or very close to it, but construed differently in the movie.

Someone at onering.net had a good commentary about that passage of the book, breaking down the passage and viewing Faramir as a crafty interrogator. (He also favored the way Tolkien handled it over the movie.)

I guess I'm more bothered by how Jackson used the Nazgul to finally bring about Faramir's change of heart. Sam's speech moved him in that direction, but it was the Nazgul confrontation that finally swayed him in the film - and its just that the scene was too contrived for me. If he had left it with Sam's speech, that would of been more natural.

Jackson probably thought he needed something more tangible and visibly dramatic than a speech/conversation to show the change in Faramir.

The whole idea of the power of the Ring and more importantly, the temptation that it presents is what I like about the movie - its a theme of the book, but Jackson is giving it more weight in the movie. I really sense the malevolence of the Ring - from when it drops on the floor, it sits on a table, or caressed by a hobbit.

[Dinner]

I see the power of the ring has gotten a hold of you hexagonian.