LOTR filled with white supremacist innuendo

[Lord_Davinator]

wait wait.. I thought it was the men that came from the west...I forget the name tolkien gave them but weren't they like Aragons forefathers?

[FrustratedPoet]

The Numenoreans were from the West, yeah.

So were the Elves.

[axi]

You have mixed up the Ages of ME.

In the first Age, the elves were created in the East, aroung lake Nurnen. When Melkor's power became great in the North, they were invited by the Valar to travel to Valinor in the far West, across the sea. When Melkor stole the Silmarils, the Noldor, one of the elven races vowed to get back East to ME to take them back. The first men came from the East of the ME towards the end of the first Age. When the Valar had to come and defeat Melkor after the failure of both elves and men, ME was so devastated that men and elves had to leave: elves went to Valinor and men went to Numenor which was an island in the middle of the sea. Then the 2nd Age started. But Melkor went to Numenor and corrupted the Numenorean men and made them so arrogant as to try to attack Valinor. They were vanquished and Numenor perished, but a few uncorrupted Numenoreans fled to ME and founded the kingdoms of Arnor and Gondor. There they joined up with the remnants of the elves that had not left ME, mostly Sindarin (grey elves like Legolas) that had never gone to Valinor and a few Noldor (like Elrond). In the year 3441 of the 2nd Age, Sauron is defeated by Elendil and Gil-Ghalad and Isildur takes the One Ring. Then the 3rd Age starts. However the 4rth age, the Age of Man, was coming and all elves and other ancient races had to go West to Valinor or pass into oblivion, which they did, during and shortly after the War of the Ring. The 4rth age commenced at the 25th of March of 1419, Shire Count, or 3019 of the 3rd Age, when Frodo throwed the Ring into the eternal flames of Mt. Orondruin.

East and west are only relative terms in Arda. The mother of all evils, the oath of Feanor, was uttered in Valinor, in the West.

[FrustratedPoet]

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by FrustratedPoet


yay 'poly!

Apolyton: We don't censor idiots, we laugh at them.

Or....

Apolyton: We don't censor idiots, we're moderated by them.

[Vesayen]

LOLLLLLLL!!!!

[Urban Ranger]

axi,

Yet, most of the stuff you said happened in Similarian, not in LotR.

[molly bloom]

So let me get this right- black/dark refers only and always to Africans, and an Oxford don of South African origins (suspicious- was he an active Broederbond member? we should be told!) who wrote a fantasy work about different races coming together to combat a great evil, was in fact subtly creating a chauvinist Aryan racist primer. Tcha.

Sometimes a cigar is a cigar, a zeppelin is a dirigible, and a car is a way of getting from A to B.

The silly cheap remark about New Zealand shows a surprising lack of knowledge of race relations there- one party with an anti-immigrant platform is actually led by a part Maori:

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/sep2002/newz-s26.shtml

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by molly bloom
So let me get this right- black/dark refers only and always to Africans, and an Oxford don of South African origins (suspicious- was he an active Broederbond member? we should be told!) who wrote a fantasy work about different races coming together to combat a great evil, was in fact subtly creating a chauvinist Aryan racist primer. Tcha.

Sometimes a cigar is a cigar, a zeppelin is a dirigible, and a car is a way of getting from A to B.

The silly cheap remark about New Zealand shows a surprising lack of knowledge of race relations there- one party with an anti-immigrant platform is actually led by a part Maori:

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/se...newz-s26.shtml

He left South Africa at age 4 I believe. I think that dark/black actually refers to the soot, smoke and grime associated with industry.

[Lord_Davinator]

what about the weed and shrums tolkien seems to love?

[St Leo]

The men of Far Harad are swarthy and dark.

I think Peter Jackson interpreted them as being Tuareg-, Berber-, and Arab-like in TTT.

[Tuberski]

Plus a lot of Far Harad is desert.


ACK!

[Mr. President]

It's interesting, but I don't think it's true. Especially in The Silmarillion, I'm inclined to think Tolkien was influenced more by Christian and Norse imagery. For instance, Melkor is originally an Ainu, a lesser being of thought created by Iluvatar, and "descends . . . into darkness". He even goes so far as to refer to Thangorodrim as "hell".

[aaglo]

Originally posted by rah
Our professors take was more on the lines of GB vs Nazi Germany. The Shire being English in it's perfect form in the West and Germany being the evil empire in the EAST

...but... but... there are no volcano's in Germany....

[Lord_Davinator]

I think Tolkien drew a lot from a lot of different mythological stories... mixed them up added a pinch and created a masterpiece.