Torture of detainees by the US?

[Ned]

Originally posted by Wernazuma III
Lorizael: The relation between USA and "preventive measures" is limiteds to "preventive use of violence" (like attacking Iraq as a defensive measure).
Looking to the reasons and trying to get to the roots of the problems isn't their strength. Just take a look at the treatment of criminals and the horrendous crime rates. The US move on the issue is extremely severe punishment to "deter" criminals. It works really great, murders are only 10-20 times more frequent than in other countries, the "land of the free" has a higher percentage of its population in prison than any other western democracy (don't know it exactly but probably more than most other states too)...

Never ask for reasons or try resolving by understanding the underlying situation, just hit harder.

Good analysis of America. If, when speaking to a foreigner he fails to understand you, just speak louder.

On crime in the US, the major problem is lack of "families." How to promote stable families to raise kid is the problem we have to solve. Even if we do have families, we have the problem of working mothers.

I don't really know what is going on at Bagram. If it amount to torture, it should end. This is something Bush should look into.

Che, according to the articles, the al Qaeda are now beginning to talk. What were are discovering is how al Qaeda does things, not current plans.

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by Wernazuma III
Lorizael: The relation between USA and "preventive measures" is limiteds to "preventive use of violence" (like attacking Iraq as a defensive measure).
Looking to the reasons and trying to get to the roots of the problems isn't their strength. Just take a look at the treatment of criminals and the horrendous crime rates. The US move on the issue is extremely severe punishment to "deter" criminals. It works really great, murders are only 10-20 times more frequent than in other countries, the "land of the free" has a higher percentage of its population in prison than any other western democracy (don't know it exactly but probably more than most other states too)...

Never ask for reasons or try resolving by understanding the underlying situation, just hit harder.

I know that's the problem. My point is that the United States, as the most powerful country in the world, should try to act differently. It has the ability to do, if it really wants to. And, being the only superpower in existence, it should set a good example for everyone else.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
While Ritter may be considered a crank by many, simply because he opposes the Administrations' position on Iraq, he was in the best position to analyze and evaluate the data coming out of Iraq. His opinion is that Iraq was in compliance, even when he thought they were hiding something.

Iraq today is not disarmed, and remains an ugly threat to its neighbors and to world peace. Those American who think that this is important and that something should be done about it have to be deeply disappointed in our leadership. - Scott Ritter (1998)

[chequita guevara]

Yes, and today he says that he was wrong then.

[Edan]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Yes, and today he says that he was wrong then.

funny how he made his 180 degree turn well after having already done his last inspection. So what made him suddenly realize that Iraq was disarmed - telepathy?

[chequita guevara]

Distance and reflection. Back then he was pissed at the Iraqis for "playing games with him," since they were obviously trying to hide something. What they kept uncovering, however, was clues as to Hussein's where-abouts. Naturally the Iraqis wanted to keep this secret, and because they were trying to keep something secret, Ritter was sure they were hiding something from him.

[Edan]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Distance and reflection.

Frankly, I prefer listening to commentary from individuals who have access to the locations as well as those with access to the latest intelligence than those that have been out of the loop. And expecting the Saddam was fully weapons-free iin 98 seems to be counter-intuitive given that he had continually been hiding things in the years of inspections before.

I'll be far more interested in what Blix (and the other inspectors) have to say in one month's time than anything Ritter has to say, even though, imho, blix has been slightly inept (ie, not interviewing scientists outside Iraq, etc).

[chequita guevara]

Well, since no one in US intel has had access to those locations and since US intelligence has shown itself to a) be woefully inadequate, and B) say whatever supports the administration's policy, Ritter's still a better bet. He was there, on the ground for years.

Why do you think Ritter changed his tune?

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Why do you think Ritter changed his tune?

Money.

[chequita guevara]

What money?

[Edan]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Well, since no one in US intel has had access to those locations

Except for a couple of defectors, IIRC. (and that's who we know about. Frankly, I don't have any access to US intel )

Why do you think Ritter changed his tune?

I have no idea. And it really doesn't matter. Ritter doesn't have any more info than what he did 5 years ago, and he came up with two seperate conclusions, both at opposite extremes, based on that info. Thats enough for me to be skeptical of him.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
What money?

The money he recieved from an Iraqi national with close ties to Hussein.

PS I don't think that Bond quote is correct.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Edan
Except for a couple of defectors, IIRC.

Defectors have every reason to lie about Hussein's capabilities. They get support from the US government and are granted a visa to stay here. If they told some other story, they'd be shipped back to Iraq.

Sorry, this governemnt has very low credibility. It has repeatedly demonstrated its willingness to lie to the American people, and without proof, I'm not going to assume they are telling the truth.

[SlowwHand]

As an aside that addesses one of Che's statements;
POW's in Viet Nam were forced to squat for long periods.
Being used to this position, it wasn't recognized that this was extremely uncomfortable for U.S. service personnel.

[Edan]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Defectors have every reason to lie about Hussein's capabilities.

Defectors, at least some of who's information, from what I understand, was verified (ie, via spy sattelites, etc?).

Frankly, I'll take a defectors information over Saddams pleas of innocence any day.