Torture of detainees by the US?

[Ted Striker]

Sometimes, female officers conduct interrogations, a psychologically jarring experience for men reared in a conservative Muslim culture where women are never in control.

For the love of Allah, noooooo!!!!




Somebody once said their legal status is that of pirates. I'd say that sounds about right.

As to our questioning Al Qaeda when we capture them, especially the senior Al Qaeda, I have no fundamental objection to questioning these folks and even making conditions for them unpleasant if they refuse to talk. They are a cross between prisoners of war and criminal's, but the kind of criminal whose crimes are great crimes, crimes against humanity. The information we seek is designed to prevent the loss of civilian lives, not the lives of soldiers. There is a critical difference here. I hope you recognize it.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Joseph]

Originally posted by Sava
.... 500,000 have died as a result of the UN sanctions against Iraq since 1998.

Sadam could stop that tomorrow Jan 1, 2003 if he gave a shlt. But he don't.

[cia]

Well, here's a kicker.
The solution is simple. If the fighters in Afghanistan are POWs and they crossed the border into Pakistan before we caught them, we have option of keeping them or turning them over to Pakistan as an invading army. If they were captured in Afghanistan there is no longer a government which will acknowledge them so we detain them until the die. If they are not POWs they ae screwed. BTW, regarding the Iraqi thing. Is someone out there willing to say Hussein does NOT have the money or ability to feed all his people right now?

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Sava
big fat hairy deal Chris... I could just as easily post pictures of starving Iraqi children... 3,000 people have died in NY.... 500,000 have died as a result of the UN sanctions against Iraq since 1998.

What sets good moral people apart from terrorists is how we treat our prisoners. Putting them in torture-like conditions just shows that the US government is no better than Osama.

If 500,000 people have died in Iraq since the last Gulf War (and that's a big if) they did not do so because of the U.N. sanctions. Take a look at the portion of Iraq that receives the same per capita money as the rest of the country, but is not being run by Sadam Hussein. Its health statistics are improved from pre-Gulf War levels. Look at what Iraq receives from the food for oil program alone (ie none of their smuggling income, and assume that there is no other economic activity), and you can see that there are a lot of countries in the world that make do on much less per capita income. Of course perhaps their people aren't being robbed blind by their leadership, but that is hardly the U.S.' fault, we've been trying to knock off Sadam and company for a while now.

And if the U.S. government is no better than Osama, then please take advantage of one of the many freedoms you have as an American citizen and get the fvck out of here. We really don't need you, or want you here. I'd rather see you whine ineffectually for the other side, any other side.

[Wernazuma III]

I shouldn't even bother to reply to you Chris, you appear to be the only troll here. But anyway, I will do it this last time.

Originally posted by Chris 62
Yep, and they were disproven Dino, but the nubes and the ol bleeding hearts think it's safe to start their silliness again...."Self-Righteous"...Wernazuma you simp, I AM A 9/11 Suvivor, don't tell me about self-rightous, while you sit in Austria!

Again, that's VERY self-righteous. I bet that the event shook the survivors in NY more than me in Austria, but does that mean I'm not allowed to have an opinion in this? I don't bother where exactly you were when the plains crashed, but you over there are not the only survivors of vile attacks. What are you trying to tell me with this pathos?

Some of you continue to be simple-minded, go ahead.

Yeah, you're right. You've been proven right and why, damn it, can someone be so idiot not to see the proofs. I really admire your analytic skills and your intention to reveal the only truth and nothing but the truth to us stupid savages who won't listen and lack rational thought.

How does it make us different Sava?
Easy.
We didn't start it.

No one said you did, but so this entitles you to do everything you want?

And bringing up that wedding just proves how silly you are, how many CIVILIZED weddings feature wild gunfire into the sky?

Only a fool or a troll would use that!

1. Weddings with excessive salute shooting can be found in many areas of the world. It might not be what you call "civilized" (and I think your definition of civilization would be quite scary to me), but it's not something unusual considering the fact that those people living with war (most of the time sponsored by the US) for 20 years had to keep and use their arms...


Next time, when posting, you should try to respond to the arguments of the other instead of ignoring the contents of elaborate posts and spitting nonsense that only aims to insult the other but doesn't contribute anything to the discussion. So, you enlightened me that I'm silly, simple-minded, a fool and a simp? I've heard many things about me, but the last one to call me a simp was my kindergarden teacher who thought I was retarded...
You should better stick to the topic and not throw around mud wildly without getting more substantial.
If you're not able to discuss in a "civilized" manner and with actual arguments you should better let posting.

[red_jon]

Don't argue with Chris, he's obviously a troll and a sick, sick man...

What happened on 9/11 does not justify violating basic human rights. The people held in Cuba were not those responsible for the atrocities in New York - many were just defending the area they had fought for (and against the Soviets, with HELP FROM THE US GOVERNMENT) for years. They were the armed enforcers of a regime - making them soldiers, IMO.

As for what the Taliban would do to me given the chance - I have no doubt that, as a homosexual, they would kill me in a horrific way. But does that mean I want to see them treated badly? No - I hate to see any human being in suffering, as I hope most of you lot do.

[Chris 62]

Your the troll, you two sick individuals.

Any chance to attack the US, you losers jump in.

Some day you may grow up, but I doubt it.

"Boo Hoo, the poor widdle terrorists have to sit in the hot sun..." Cry me a river.

You are SO naive.

[Chris 62]

And as an added bonus, anyone that thinks gunfire is the way to celibrate, is BACKWARD.

[red_jon]

Chris, you obviously like to see these people suffer as it somehow helps make what happened in NY more fair.

As a firsthand witness, obviously you're gonna feel this way, but it's still wrong

And I've never seen you provide a decent argument on any subject.

[Chris 62]

Mainly because you never look youngster.

This topic was a giant troll from the getgo, only a simp (and that fits SO well here) would accuse the US of torturing prisoners.

If your this gullible, you already show that intelligent discourse is beyound you.

Human rights...how do YOU know they are violated?
Answer: You haven't a clue.
Unnamed sources...yeah, right.

[red_jon]

Originally posted by Chris 62
And as an added bonus, anyone that thinks gunfire is the way to celibrate, is BACKWARD.

Well done, you've managed to display complete ignorance of other cultures.

Mainly because you never look youngster.

The age argument is getting tired...

This topic was a giant troll from the getgo, only a simp (and that fits SO well here) would accuse the US of torturing prisoners.

Using insults does not constitute a decent argument. Plus, it's a pretty well established fact that the US has tortured prisoners before (as has Britain for that matter, so you can't brand your country as exempt) - where do you think the phrase 'the third degree' comes from - in the 1930s, prisoners were steamed until their skin burned away.

If your this gullible, you already show that intelligent discourse is beyound you.

This coming from someone who cannot tell the differece between your and you're .

Human rights...how do YOU know they are violated?
Answer: You haven't a clue.
Unnamed sources...yeah, right.

If you actually bothred to read the thread, you'd see that I already stated that the British media picked up on this at the time. I'd hardly call the newsapers and other media outlets over here 'unnamed sources'.

[Chris 62]

You are still such a baby, red, a year and your still acting like a petulant child.

The British press started this last time, and where made to look like fools as the Red Cross inspection proved all the alligations false.
We should believe them now?

You also show your childishness by:
a) Always saying I'm trolling. Silly child, stating the truth is not trolling.
b) Excessive political correctness, to-wit, this ludicrous statement:
"Well done, you've managed to display complete ignorance of other cultures."
Genital mutilation is displayed by many cultres.
Homophobia is displayed by many cultures.
Neither makes them diversified child, it makes them BACKWARD.
Just like shooting a gun into the air.

You haven't grown at all, it's a shame.

[Jaakko]

Ya know Chris, this thread was going rather nicely until you came along.

[Chris 62]

Spoiled your US bash fest?

What a shame.

Try being fair and constructive, it would be a nice change.

[Jaakko]

Well here's your chance then flameboy, give me some arguments. Don't try to shout me down like you tried with everyone else.

Like I said from the start, this NOT the same as the Gitmo controversy. The accusations are pointing to other facilities, and they are a whole lot worse than Gitmo. The specifics can be found by reading the thread and the links.

The accusations are coming from a number of government sources, and as such seem quite waterproof.
The activities described are torture, and considered so even by the US State Dept, in their human rights reports.
The "renditions" of prisoners are even a more clear case, getting a whole article in international law (ie. it's illegal)

My ethical position is that once we descend to this level, we're starting to resemble the enemy just a little bit too much for comfort. A civilised nation does not use such methods on its prisoners.