GOD and the black hole

[Docfeelgood]

I cannot speak for everyone but I would belive more from a scientist who can except GOD than one who cannot.

A man that cannot except GOD is pure folly to me.

Don't read to much into what I say because I have trouble putting it into words.

I trust in GOD not man.

[chequita guevara]

I, however, do look down upon anyone who believes in a diety. It shows a lack of intelligence.

[Gatekeeper]

I have faith that *both* our scientists and theologians are onto something awesome ...

Gatekeeper

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
I, however, do look down upon anyone who believes in a diety. It shows a lack of intelligence.

You have as much faith in something that you can not prove as any theist. I fail to see how you can look down on us.

[chequita guevara]

Hush you.

It can work, damnit!

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Heh I could have made a bet that this will be the fastest growing thread of the day

However to get back to the point.

God.. unprovable, mthycal, infinite etc,...etc...
Science... logic, cause and effect... finite.. etc, etc...

These two should not be enemies, but as some scientists and people haven't found answers they were looking for in God they are trying to find the answer anywhere they can and that is trough science at the moment. (therefore scince might be the opium of the masses in the same way religion was before, or is still for many, heh)

That doesn't mean that God either exists or does not exist. And that does not mean that because fringe scientifical theories may be proven incorrect that there is a higher being, as we all agree (i hope).

and to go back to your introductary quote

I thought that was odd to readly except something that could not be seen.
Like GOD cannot see but know GOD exist by the influince on life.

The question is what are you really looking for?

if you are looking for how come scientific ideas can be similar in the amount of observable information to the amount of observable information about the idea of God.


Believe the "balck hole" - well there is scientific evidence for it at present.
Believe that God has influence on your life - well there is evidence for you to think so. How could someone else persuede you that this is not true, you live your own life, they don't.

One is a preceived natural phenomenon and the other one is your life. Different rules apply. We could all percieve what is known about "black holes" in the same way (hopefully ) , but there is no way of looking into a persons life and saying "God was there", or just boldly proclaiming "there is no God". "There is no God" mainly means there is no God for me. I don't see it. If everyone stops seeing him/it, well there will not be this debate anymore.

And there should be no confrontation, science can be debated and it can ask for the underlying logic to come back to the same conclusion over and over (fromthe present pool of understood information), personal faith cannot be taken in the same regard, as it lack the "it will happen to you too factor", even though that does not mean that personal faith is not true.

However one can take a look into history and denounce religious teachings/ creationism/ etc on the basis of what science has proven wrong already from the available pool of information. However this does not have anything with the existance of God. That is still on personal level.
And so be it. (etc... one can always argue about one thing or the other, one could say that Creationism is true just that the amount of available information is not complete and that from the present position we were mislead, but why would one believe this person, until the information that he claims exists is proven to be true? )

[Ramo]

1. Black holes can be seen, in that electromagnetic radiation can indicate where it is. I believe you're mis-interpreting what the guy you saw on the TV said (or he was full of crap). If the black hole is large, a whole lot of gas is orbiting it. Due to the large gravitational field, usually this gas is extremely hot, so emits plenty of blackbody radiation mostly in the high energy x-ray range, though some of it is in the visible range. Furthermore, due to pair production of photons out of a vacuum at the event horizon (Hawking Radiation), the black hole radiates its gravitational energy.

2. Yes, I'm relying on faith. I'm relying on faith that my vision, hearing, etc. is actually giving me information corresponding to the real world. I'm relying on faith that there isn't a huge conspiracy in the scientific community that is passing bull**** information to undergrad students and the general public. I'm relying on faith that all the equipment relevant to determining this information hadn't suddenly become damaged prior to the observations (and it has been confirmed quite a bit, so that'd be damn impressive were this a false premise). I'm relying on faith in that our scientific theories are valid, but they are regularly tested through observation by the scientific community, so this would also be impressive were this assumption wrong in fundamental ways. It's just that these assumptions are much more reasonable than there being a magical omnipotent being controlling the universe.

Scientists are able to confirm or refute any observations and theories dealing with the physical world (and regularly do so), while the same is not true for mystics in dealing with the metaphysical world.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Docfeelgood
If a scientist admitts to beleiving in GOD are they looked down on by there peers?

I've never met a science person who does this. Looking down on someone for believing in God is dumb. One could just as easily look down on someone who believes God does not exist.

[Ramo]

matter cannot occupy the same space twice? or what ever it is, I understand.

I don't know what if this is what you're referring, but no two fermions can occupy the same quantum state. This is called the Pauli Exclusion Principle, and the pressures arising from it, electron and neutron degeneracy pressures, come into play in holding up white dwarfs and neutron stars, while plays lesser roles in holding up less dense stars. In the case of the black hole, the gravitational field is so strong, it overwhelms the pressure arising from this phenomenon.

So all this matter is being compressed into tinyness?

I think that there is something going on here that is not known or cannot be explained as of yet.

Let's say you look at the sun. You've got a relatively large gravitaitonal field that's pulling matter towards its center. What's holding it up? Doesn't it "make sense" that it should just collapse into something infinitesimally small, that the sun should compress to a tiny dot? Think about it for a minute.

The pressures that hold up stars like the sun up are not relevant as they become more and more dense due to increases in gravity. Eventually, there aren't any pressures able to hold up the star when it collapses to a black hole.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Docfeelgood
I cannot speak for everyone but I would belive more from a scientist who can except GOD than one who cannot.

A man that cannot except GOD is pure folly to me.

Don't read to much into what I say because I have trouble putting it into words.

I trust in GOD not man.

This is hypocrisy from you. You complained earlier about scientists looking down on people who don't believe in God, but here you are looking down on those who do not believe in God. Pretty two-faced. Why are you allowed the double standard?

[Ramo]

I look down on anyone who doesn't accept Bob, the pink unicorn from the dark side of the moon. Heathens.

[Japher]

Have you all forgot Disney's awesome, and rather accurate, explination of black holes in the movie The Black Hole?!!!

They got it exactly right, almost.

On the other side of the whole is God. hehe

[Boris Godunov]

Not to mention Disney's oh-so-accurate visual representation...

[Japher]

What about the anti-matter theory? Was that a hoax. I don't quite recall it, it has been so long since I read anything on black holes. Yet, I thought I remembered something about black holes being a source of positrons, indicating an anti-matter generator. Maybe there is some link between black holes and another universe/dimension? One that is the same, but exactly oposite... Bizzaro world or something. Like, the anti-matter leaks back through the hole somehow, and the matter that is absorbed by a blackhole is actually being deposited as anti-matter on the other side.

I know it sounds weird, but I didn't make it up.

Disney told me

[Japher]

A scientist should believe in the possibility of there actually being a God.

Not only that, but a good inventor should never rule out the fact that all because they currently cannot prove that it does exists or does not exist, does not mean that they may one day be able to.

Being a scientist requires one to believe the unbelievable until proven that is wrong. And, proof comes with FACT not cold hard dismisal of such fact.