Poll: Is Georgias new "death warrant" on abortions a good idea?

[St Leo]

Abortion as a means of contraception is stupid.

Those Stop-Train-Emergency-Use-Only levers you see in subways are stupid as a means of getting off.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara

Ogalthorpe is totally on the money.

I feel so dirty.

Shudder.....

No amount of bathing helps.....

I know I've tried.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
What makes you think the baby belongs to you?
Never mind. I forgot totally for a second your thoughts on other things.
My error. Only a person of faith would recognize and acknowledge the fact that the baby was a "loaner".

Really? So when my daughter becomes a surly teenager, I can just return her to someone? You got an address?

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by DetroitDave


Exactly, and what does that say for equal protection for the fetus under the law? It's the circumstances of the pregnancy that dictate whether the fetus has "death warrant'" protection or not, while others are expendable.

I don't follow your point here. Call me daft.

You concede a fetus has no legal rights?

If so why the need for a court sanctioned abortion? or are we simply having the court decide what is a legal pregnancy and thereby legislating morality?

Going this route to me seems exceedingly shaky grounds, at least when pro-life uses the arguement that a fetus is human or destined to be human there is no pretense about legislating morality wrt cause of pregnancy as they take the high ground saying all humans deserve the right to live. (again I don't buy that arguement either but it at least is more defensible IMHO)

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
What makes you think the baby belongs to you?

Because it's not a baby yet. Babies have brains and forming minds.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Because it's not a baby yet.

When would you say it becomes one then?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
When would you say it becomes one then?

Technically, once its born. However, I'm kinda of the opinion that once the fetus begins "thinking" that abortion should be off limits. It's not yet senitent yet, but I'm uncomfortable with killing human flesh which has awareness.

[Jac de Molay]

You concede a fetus has no legal rights?

The problem I have is the court wants it both ways. It's willing to grant a fetus human status from the outset of a "death warrant" hearing, but just as willing to deny "human" status in granting abortions for pregnancies in certain circumstances completely beyond its control.

That's the problem with calling the fetus human to begin with. It can't speak and defend on its behalf, like fully-developed people, whether the court rules in its favor or not. I guess that's what I meant by equal protection.
Its tried in absentia no matter what, and it becomes even more screwed up when the mother's health is at stake.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
However, I'm kinda of the opinion that once the fetus begins "thinking" that abortion should be off limits.

When would you say that happens?

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

I grog D. Dave.

The point is the same only I chose the phrase situational ethics.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
When would you say that happens?

More or less around the six month point of the pregnancy. At that point, thought is still just random nerve firings and its debatable whether or not that the fetus has awareness. Even live born children have incoherent minds and aren't really sentient.

It is our consciousness, however, that defines us as human more so than anything else. Once the fetus has awareness, even as limited as it is, it has become human.



Edit: CBEAST!

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Once the fetus has awareness, even as limited as it is, it has become human.

I think that you are going to have to come up with a better limit than that considering the fact you just said that even children born alive aren't sentient.

[David Floyd]

Floyd? Floyd thinks it's his right to burn the framing.

Of course, your example has nothing to do with the issue of abortion. You see, I, as a living human, paid for the framing, and it is mine. If you burn it down, you are burning my property.

When you look at a fetus and the issue of abortion, it's a totally separate matter. It's not clear that the fetus retains any rights, because it is not clear whether the fetus is a human, and on top of that, the issue is further complicated by the fetus having to totally rely on the mother to stay alive.

Oh, and Slowwhand - if everyone is using "David's logic", then perhaps my logic is correct, and your's is not. Ever consider that possibility?

Didn't think you did.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
I think that you are going to have to come up with a better limit than that considering the fact you just said that even children born alive aren't sentient.

I am aware there is a flaw in my definition, since logically it would allow the killing of born-babies. I'm not sure how to deal with it yet.

[SlowwHand]

Hate to burst your bubble buddy, but your property or not, you'd go to jail .
Yeah, Che used the same faulty comeback.