Saddam APOLOGIZES for invading Kuwait?!

[Alireza1354]

Originally posted by Ned
Alireza, I'm having a hard time pinning down what you are for. You seem to be for everything that OBL is for except that you say you are against fundamentalism and OBL.

Are you in favor of democracies in Islamic countries? If so, you will find that the United States and Europe, for that matter, are on your side and are not your enemy.

The problem I see though is that you seem to place Islam and not democracy at the center of your political beliefs. This is why I think in the end you are in Osama bin Laden's camp.

Dont try to see everything in black and white.

If I prefer islam to be a political factor, I dont have to be ending up with Osama. Osama is a scandalous appearance and his beliefs are totally blasphemous when compared with the kuran. I am in favor of SECULARISM and DEMOCRACY in the islamic countries. But that doesnt mean I have to abandon my culture and religion or even give up my sympathy with other muslims and translate that sympathy into pragmatic political and economic cooperation. But I look further than the religious label. It is all about politics, about resources and strategy.


Read my words:

The west is AGAINST democracy and freedom in the islamic world. This might come as a shock but it is so. The west only acts as a guardian of democracy, but in fact, in only cares about its own. Why? Because the misery in the muslim world is good for western economies. Our weakness is very important for the continuing exploitation of our countries, if we were strong, the wests interests in our countries would not be the wests interests anymore, it would be OUR interests, and the west couldnt exploit them anymore but pay for them dearly. The last thing the west is waiting for, is the emergance of yet a new economic and political block which happens to be at a negative stance with the west. (not forgetting the historical factor) So our misery is your blessing.

Yes our misery produces terrorists, loose bullets who have lost all hope and patience and take the law in own hands. But the USA and Europe would rather have terrorists (which happen to help western PR in the world very very very much!) than a sophisticated power against her which would really endanger the western position in the world. Now, Asia (China) is fulfilling this role bit by bit, but we muslims will use this shifting of power for our own interests.

YOU are against democracy and freedom in our countries.
The fact is that everytime a great leader stood up to promote more institutional reforms towards more democracy and certainly secularism
(Nasser, Faysal, Mohammad Reza Shah,Arafat,Bourguiba,Qadaffi) you take stance against them because they have firm anti-western political beliefs (which is understandable after centuries of exploitation) without looking at the actual things they stand for. Well my advice to you is to take the bitter pill and understand that democracy in our countries will result in more anti-western governments.
But at least you will have real opponents and a more equal political and economical balance.

Or you may let the fundamentalists take over, like you did in so many countries

Think about it and then you will realize.

The media, your governments , your public opinion is all biased and focused on bashing islam and muslims, you dont have any positive criticism at all. Those people who really try to do something are bashed with the fundamentalists alltogether. No problem, we can take care for ourselves.

[Alireza1354]

Originally posted by Azazel
one of my favorites was :


guess all of that ethnic violence in Gujaraat was extreme affection.

The violence in Gujarat is of POLITICAL and territorial nature!

Its about traditional political loyalty, about elections, about the corruption thereof and about foreign interference.

Who wants to understand the complex situation in Gujarat should not yell out of their behinds in ignorance, but ask the Gujarati's themselves about the situation!

http://www.gujaratplus.com/

[Alireza1354]

Originally posted by Arrian


I agree, the "Hindus ADORE Muslims" comment almost made me snarf. Serves me right for drinking water and reading 'poly at the same time.

Hmm... DL or not? Due to sheer volume of the posts, I'm thinking not, actually. That's more effort than I expect from a DL.

-Arrian

Whats a DL?

[Ned]

Alireza, I am not going to give you a long defense of the West. I think we have been guilty of much of what you say. However, there are many Americans - a growing number, who are sick and tired of non democratic regimes in the Muslim world. We, the US, are very much pro democracy. I am personally pro-democracy. However, we cannot go to war against regimes just because they are not democratic - although I personally think this is a good idea. What we try to do is influence regimes to better their human rights record and to become more democratic.

BTW, how do you feel about Afghanistan. Are we doing OK there?

[Alireza1354]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove


I was referring to the great churches of Istanbul, the rest of Turkey, Syria, and the holy places of Israel. The original owners never left. There are still Orthodox Christians in Turkey, Syria and Israel, and there have been Jews living in Israel throughout the past two millenia as well.

Should we refer to the great mosques of Cordoba, Sevillia,Lisbon, Toledo, Zaragoza,Valencia,Granada and so forth and so forth?

It sheer hypocracy to compare a medieval ruin in western Turkey with the significance of Palestine.

There are still Jews and christians in the muslimworld, but isnt it quite odd if there would be more churches than the people who attend them?

As for the Jews, most Jews lived scattered around the world in the last 2 decennia. The Jews who did live in Palestine, are unrecognisible cause they look like Palestinians in language, culture and physical appearances. They often share the anti-israeli stance in politics too!

[Az]

why we do have positive criticism. Stop being *******s, get your human rights, and economies straight, and stop trying to dominate the world. "But you try to do it, as well" you say. Well, duh. You can try to outrun other "civilizations", but in the short term, and even middle term future, you have no chance. So you better stop basking in the days of glory gone so long ago that the bodies of those who lived then, are merely grains of dust, but try to do something today, because TODAY, you're nothing but a nuisance in the most of the worlds eyes. America doesn't like you, China doesn't like you, India doesn't like you, Russia doesn't like you, Europe doesn't like you but tries to allign you with itself in it's own interests. Japan couldn't care less about you. So unless you make an impact in the world, you don't matter.

Look at Israel for crying out loud. It's our relative economic and military strength, that has made everyone respect us, although some/many don't show any sympathy to us, because of trying to have your bunch of rubble of regimes on their side economically. You're treated like a retarded child, People feel sorry for you, and try to compensate you sometimes with little geopolitical candy, to distract you from the fact that you're politically impotent.

(hey, people, how was my pseudo-intelligent troll? )

[Ned]

Originally posted by Alireza1354



Whats a DL?

Double Login. It is a person who logins in as a new member but who really is an old member. They do this to avoid a suspension or to take an outrageous stand on some current issue. It is quite amusing at tiimes.

It is also a violation of the forum's rules.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Azazel


(hey, people, how was my pseudo-intelligent troll? )

Pretty good.

[Alireza1354]

Originally posted by Ned
Alireza, I am not going to give you a long defense of the West. I think we have been guilty of much of what you say. However, there are many Americans - a growing number, who are sick and tired of non democratic regimes in the Muslim world. We, the US, are very much pro democracy. I am personally pro-democracy. However, we cannot go to war against regimes just because they are not democratic - although I personally think this is a good idea. What we try to do is influence regimes to better their human rights record and to become more democratic.

BTW, how do you feel about Afghanistan. Are we doing OK there?

The people of the USA are being used by their own government. You are a victim too! The hate you get from the terrorists is created by Washington! By YOUR taxmoney!

I think USA did a very good job in Afghanistan, ousting those animal Taliban. I liked it when the Afghans told the USA to leave as soon as the Taliban is ousted too.

I know the USA ousted them cause terrorism is endangering its interests and destabilizing the region, and has nothing to do with the well-being of Afghans. And fortunately the ignorant and illiterate Afghans even know this.

But I believe the USA should be consistent and cooperate with muslims to get ALL terrorists, Israeli terrorists too , and not only battle the phenomenon but the origin!

I hope Iraq, Israel, Turkey, Saoudi Arabia and Iran will be next, but I know they wont.

And even if they will be, the one dictator will make place for another pro-western one.

[Az]

good, I've been getting rather rusty lately. Couldn't even normally troll paiktis on greece.

[TheStinger]

Anyone who says Gadaffi promotes democracy must be a DL

[TheStinger]

Originally posted by Alireza1354




I hope Iraq, Israel, Turkey, Saoudi Arabia and Iran will be next, but I know they wont.

And even if they will be, the one dictator will make place for another pro-western one.

WTF have Turkey done wrong, ok they are not squeaky clean, but they are not run by a bunch of mad mullahs or psycoptahic dictators. They have ELECTIONS

[Ned]

Alireza, I wish there were more like you in the Muslim world. Democracy is exactly what the Muslim world needs to end oppression.

As I said, I think America and Europe are supportive of democracy in the Muslim world. The problem of course is your rulers have us by the b*lls because of OIL As a result, we can't do much about the current regimes except to quietly suggest improvements.

[Az]

oh, and there is no way that the US is going to attack a nuclear power.

[Alireza1354]

Originally posted by Azazel
why we do have positive criticism. Stop being *******s, get your human rights, and economies straight, and stop trying to dominate the world. "But you try to do it, as well" you say. Well, duh. You can try to outrun other "civilizations", but in the short term, and even middle term future, you have no chance. So you better stop basking in the days of glory gone so long ago that the bodies of those who lived then, are merely grains of dust, but try to do something today, because TODAY, you're nothing but a nuisance in the most of the worlds eyes. America doesn't like you, China doesn't like you, India doesn't like you, Russia doesn't like you, Europe doesn't like you but tries to allign you with itself in it's own interests. Japan couldn't care less about you. So unless you make an impact in the world, you don't matter.

Look at Israel for crying out loud. It's our relative economic and military strength, that has made everyone respect us, although some/many don't show any sympathy to us, because of trying to have your bunch of rubble of regimes on their side economically. You're treated like a retarded child, People feel sorry for you, and try to compensate you sometimes with little geopolitical candy, to distract you from the fact that you're politically impotent.

(hey, people, how was my pseudo-intelligent troll? )

America doesn't like you, China doesn't like you, India doesn't like you, Russia doesn't like you, Europe doesn't like you but tries to allign you with itself in it's own interests. Japan couldn't care less about you. So unless you make an impact in the world, you don't matter.

This is very generalizing. So you want to say China doesnt like the people inhabiting the area from Indonesia till Morocco for being muslims? Thats a pathetic remark. India only doesnt like Kashmir, India has nothing against Arabs. Russia only doesnt like Chechens, but they are good friends with Iran and the Arabs. Japan is a very good client of the gulf states, what are you saying? America? ahhaha Who likes America? You have your eyes shut, thats ok.. That will only enhance the change.

Look at Israel for crying out loud. It's our relative economic and military strength, that has made everyone respect us, although some/many don't show any sympathy to us, because of trying to have your bunch of rubble of regimes on their side economically.

Israel hasnt made itself strong, Israel is nothing but a western expiriment. And the sympathy to you is because you garden their oil with your bodies and are an excuse for the guilty feeling europeans have towards you. Westerners dont like you Jews, wake up.

Stop being *******s, get your human rights, and economies straight,

Uncle Sam doesnt let us! Look at what Uncle Sam has to say about Saoudi Arabia; "a stabile and dynamic kingdom in the middle east and a valuable ally against fundamentalism (????) and terrorism! Yeah right! They have financed the Taliban and thousands of other fundo organizations! Look at Turkey who is killing Kurds! Look at what Bush said about Kurdistan; "It will NEVER be allowed for Kurdistan to become an independent state"!

and stop trying to dominate the world

Why should we? Thats our political right. Especially after the west is doing nothing else but trying to dominate the world.

Well, duh. You can try to outrun other "civilizations", but in the short term, and even middle term future, you have no chance.

Hahahah thats what you think! In fact, you Israeli's will become our Hong Kong, and you will help us strengthen ourselves even more. Remember this, the children of Abraham will unite once again Wait until the Sephardi's constitute a vast majority in politics and society then you'll see. As for the world, we muslims are integrating in one another very fastly and consistently and nobody is going to stop us.

And how about this one, its in the interest of non-western countries (like Russia, China, India, south America and Africa) that muslims unite and join the camp of international sympathy against western monopoly of world resources and technology.

your bunch of rubble of regimes on their side economically

They are not ours!

You're treated like a retarded child,

We ?? Ironic, a Jew is generalizing. Your German masters teached you well.

People feel sorry for you, and try to compensate you sometimes with little geopolitical candy, to distract you from the fact that you're politically impotent.

This situation (which only occurs to a certain group of countries) will certainly end. We are working on it.