94 year old Palestinian grandmother killed in Intifada

[Arrian]

WTF??? They have been occupying Palestine since 1948.
The Palestinian Freedom Fighting is a result of Israeli terrorism and occupation!

You are a poor Cybergnu clone. Paiktis is the Greek Fez. We need something fresh around here, I think.

-Arrian

[Chris 62]

Ack, I will NEVER give Gomez a santa hat!

[Bereta_Eder]

check out the one on my avatar

stefu made it

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Arrian


You are a poor Cybergnu clone. Paiktis is the Greek Fez. We need something fresh around here, I think.

-Arrian

Hey I got my head on straight about this issue. I am pro-Israeli.

[CyberGnu]

Nononono

One has to earn the title of a CyberGnu clone. Just being scandinavian doesn't cut it.

[Ozz]

Originally posted by Edan


So the massacres of the 20s and 30s (that the british were there to prevent weren't reason to arm themselves?) And IIRC, some members of the Irgun had been hanged by the British when they had been promised to be released which was what had initiated the action. Doesn't make ithe action right, but doesn't mean it was done without reason.

What massacres, seem more like riots to me. Big differience in arming yourself for self defense and
sticking 750 kilos of TNT in a hotel basement.

1920
- April: disturbances start in Palestine. Five Jewish people killed and 200 injured. UK investigates and attributes causes to broken promises and fears of new waves of immigrants.
1921
- March: formation of the Haganah, Jewish underground terror organization
- May: Disturbances in Haifa protesting Zionist waves of immigration leading, among casualties, to 46 Jewish immigrants. The British investigate, found as before.
1929
- August: clashes over the Western (Alburaq) Wall i Jerusalem. Clashes led to 116 killed and 232
wounded among Palestinians (mainly by British fire) and 133 dead and 339 wounded among the Jewish side.
1930
- March: the British Shaw committee releases findings in the 1929 clashes.
1931
- Irgon, another Jewish terrorist organization, formed by Zionist extremists and those who split from Haganah. Led by Vladimir Jabutinsky.

What a load of CRAP I filtered though just to get these
basic facts. Found plently of other "massacres" too Mansurat al Khayt, Wadi ‘Ara, Qisarya, but nothing that was confirmed by any respectable source.

I found no "independent" source for your accusation that the British broke their word, and very much doubt
that they did, especially as the accusation comes form
a terrorist group.

[Edan]

Oh, this is rich. It's bad enough people rely on the internet for their information, but you quote a Pro-Palestinian website, considering it an independant and unbiased source. Cute.

Try opening a book - you know, those pieces of paper that are binded together, often containg words and sometimes even pictures. Then try reading (in those books, you know) about the Mufti and his organization of fedayeen, the riots of 1920, 1921, 1929, 1936-1939, (and other smaller riots), the British response to those riots (such as the release of the White Paper as a result of those riots) as well as their "protection" of the Jews.

The British responded to Arab violence when it became a threat to them. Of course, the British had done a good job of promising things to both sides (often contradictory) and not keeping them - but they kept a whole lot more promises to the Arab side.

What massacres, seem more like riots to me. Big differience in arming yourself for self defense and
sticking 750 kilos of TNT in a hotel basement.

And that's what the underground movements did, until the more extreme Irgun started attacking on the offensive in late 1937 (which was condemned the Jewish Agency) as a result of the ineffectiveness of the Haganah, and escalated, iirc, around 1944 or 45(due to a number of reasons, including, unsuprisingly, the holocaust and the restrictions on immigration during a time when it would have saved tens of thousands if not more) and resulted in the Haganah completely cutting off all ties to the Irgun.

1921
- March: formation of the Haganah, Jewish underground terror organization

The Haganah was little more than an underground neighborhood watch until the 1930s - indeed, they were very ineffective against Arab attacks.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by CyberGnu
Nononono

One has to earn the title of a CyberGnu clone. Just being scandinavian doesn't cut it.

So what are the qualifications other than being Scandanavian and wrong about the ME?

[Bereta_Eder]

Crap. The title is really ignoble.

I was just so angry when I found out about this one.

Maybe it was the way it was written.

Anyway it wasn't meant to be a "troll", just me being seriously pissed and wanted this news to be "screwed in peoples' minds at Poly" or just '"unvent".

Apologies to the Israelis for the title.

And believe it or not the "explanations" that were given by Edan (however laughable weak and vulnerable they are) were not a part of that article/point of view (propably because of it, but they should have been included nevertheless).

BTW the legends in the photos I provided are REUTERS.

[CyberGnu]

Sikander, start with a proper understanding of sources and history...

There are more, but I'll save them for later.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by CyberGnu
Sikander, start with a proper understanding of sources and history...

There are more, but I'll save them for later.

Just a little Yuletide trolling!

[CyberGnu]

[Gangerolf]

so it's ok to post pictures of dead kids, while ****, **** and **** are censored. and no nipples please
stop the madness!

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Edan


So if the you've exausted every other option (and I did state that every other option should be tried first) what do you do? Wait around until you get hit and injured or killed?

There are plenty of non-lethal means of response, from flashbangs to light concussion grenades, teargas, etc. There's also simply disengaging from a particular area if it's too damn hot and there's not a specific high priority objective.

Let's ignore the humanitarian issues on both sides, and look at things simply from the point of view of effective tactics. Go back and take a look at those two kids in one of Paiktis' troll photo posts.

Let's assume the Israelis who killed the kids did receive fire and respond. Did they do so effectively? Obviously not, on two counts - those kids clearly weren't the shooter(s), and whoever was the shooter(s) apparently didn't get wasted, just the two little kids.

My son just turned two. I guarantee you if there was some armed force in my neighborhood who killed my son, I would hunt those mother****ers down relentlessly as long as I drew breath, and I would kill them by any and every means at my disposal. Do you think the Palestinian relatives of those kids feel any different? Do a lot of Israelis feel a lot different about the Palestinians when their own relatives are murdered?

Neither side is killing each other at a high enough rate to utterly break the will of the other. They're just doing it at a high enough rate to harden the positions of both sides and to drive the desire to retaliate. The Israeli soldiers who hit those kids obviously either (a) fired a high volume of area fire and happened to hit those kids (i.e. fired indiscrimately), or (b) engaged a target with aimed fire and killed two kids.

Same with the "prohibited road" - if it's prohibited, put up ****ing barriers. Engaging and killing Palestinians (more civilians than terrorists are being killed) isn't effective at stopping the bombing. Offensive sweeps into PA areas isn't creating border security and preventing all bombers, etc. from getting across.

Neither side is engaging in effective tactics, unless the goal is simply to perpetuate the status quo. It seems to me the choice of tactics on both sides is a lot more about ego and not appearing to back down and about politically driven "do-somethingitis"

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Gangerolf
so it's ok to post pictures of dead kids, while ****, **** and **** are censored. and no nipples please
stop the madness!

It's not particularly OK, but at least the dead kid photos have some informative function as to the reality of a major global issue affecting the lives of millions of people.

**** and nipples don't really have that significance, although I hadn't heard the nipples one or seen any pics that got edited out because of nipples.