Israeli Army Kills 8-Year-Old Palestinian Boy

[axi]

I am amazed seeing the extent in which our collective judgement is warped. You say that they are both to blame for killing innocent children. They are. But are they equal? No they aren't. The one side goes in with tanks and choppers and fires missiles and machine-gun rounds at children, to ensure their domination. The other side goes in and sacrifices one of their own, in a desperate attempt to break that domination. Both actions are bad, both are wrong, both are contempatable, but they are NOT THE SAME. One is despicable, while the other is honorable. Do not misunderstand me: there is no honor in killing children, yet it is the biggest honor to die for the life and future of your children.

The line of equal distances is wrong in this case. The daft christian morality will not provide a solution in this case. In this case, there is but one morality to be found true: it's the morality of life and needs and matter; it's the morality of everyday struggle in the occupied territories. It's the morality that gives justice to the weak and the oppressed and it's only measure is no other but hate. People that hate so much as to suppress their own life instinct are people who have sufferred beyond our wildest imagination. Some respect is due for such a struggle, don't you think?

[ixnay]

When the palestinians start peaceably protesting against the Israeli actions, then they'll have my sympathy. As long as they keep blowing themselves up in retaliations, I won't sympathize with them.

[Jules]

axi,

I would agree with you except that you omitted one crucial thing. You've discounted the horrible suffering of countless Israelis who've lost loved ones in the suicide bombings. Many have been young people, who now won't have a future. Their families have sacrificed much to give them a better existence, only to see them killed in such a senseless way. That is truely a maddening thing, which manifests itself in the brutality of the Occupation. This is why Occupation vs. Intifadah are both no-win situations. The actions of Palestinian bombers may be "honorable" as you say because they firmly believe they are doing it in the service of their nation, but it is not the solution. So I think we're back to both sides equally to blame.

[CyberGnu]

Jules"

Their families have sacrificed much to give them a better existence, only to see them killed in such a senseless way.

Yep. Arab lives, to be exact.

[CyberGnu]

Ixnay, so you became a palestinian supporter in 1990?

[CyberGnu]

Odin, Sharon isn't stupid. He knows exactly what he is doing - making sure no peace settlement is possible.

[Zylka]

Why, is that when they stopped blowing themselves up in retaliation?

[axi]

ixnay37: That's the typical response I'm up against. They can't do what you suggest. If you were in their shoes, you wouldn't do that either. You would probably pick up a Kalashnikov and fire at the Israelis. If you were to see your house destroyed and your baby killed, you might pick an explosive belt and go blow up a bus. You are not a lamb, no more than the Pals are anyway.

Jules: Those Israelis were leading pretty much normal lives until then and many of then were voting for Sharon and the other fascist bastards. They are not more innocent than the Palestinian victims. Some of them are really guilty. Some of them are not. It depends of how you define guilt. There are some really broad definitions of it. F.e. some people in the Arab world feel that the Twin Tower victims were collectivelly guilty for the crimes of the United States and it's imperialist machine. I don't agree with that, but if I were a Palestinian or an Iraqui, I might agree.

That's the sad truth: nothing more - nothing less. If it's in our hands to change it, even in a minuscule way, it is our duty to do so. If I were you, I would go to the next anti-war rally, to help prevent that sort of thing.

[Felch]

Originally posted by red_jon
I find it amazing the way people can just sit there and advocate the massacre of children

Who advocated the massacre of childen? I just said that Israelis prolly just don't care anymore. Do you think any different?

[Jules]

Cyber,

I was actually referring to Jewish lives in my post, but the principle applies to Arab lives as well. axi's point was Palestinian young people are blowing themselves up because they've suffered under the Occupation. My point is that Israelis have also suffered terribly because of Palestinian terrorism, and that is why they seem indifferent to the suffering caused by the Occupation, even to the point of being willing to continue it indefinitely. The people of the Middle East are all in agony, so they're killing each other until somebody shows them a better way.

[Felch]

Originally posted by CyberGnu
Ixnay, so you became a palestinian supporter in 1990?

I think he means peacefully protesting and not killing innocent people in bombings. Those two kind of go together.

If the pals were totally peaceful in 1990 they would have had my support. If they were peaceful now they'd have my support. But **** if I'll give support to a bunch of savages who bomb buses, and then celebrate in the streets. The Israelis at least don't give candy to children when they kill innocent civilians.

[Jules]

Originally posted by CyberGnu
Odin, Sharon isn't stupid. He knows exactly what he is doing - making sure no peace settlement is possible.

I think that applies more to Netanyahu than Sharon. Sharon hasn't actually said, "No peace...period," whereas Netanyahu has said so. Sharon is bad, but Netanyahu is much worse.

[Dr. Nick]

It's a war of independence and self determination, is it not?

[Felch]

I have trouble buying into the independence and self determination pretext. My family is Irish, and in America that basically means that you root for the IRA, or used to anyways. But looking back it all seems really repugnant. There are places where the Irish can live without government reprisal, in the Republic, in the US, and in the UK for the most part. Killing innocent people because they wanted to change a line on a map seems savage.

The same holds true for the Pals, although they don't really have as many places to go. But Israeli-Arabs live better lives than the Pals do, and everybody would be a damn sight better off if the violence ended, so I see no reason to have strife. I believe the Israelis would end the occupation if the Pals just gave in and decided to live peacefully side by side, in the same country. Necessary reforms could be passed through the Knesset peacefully, if only the Pals would buy into the current system of government and work cooperatively to live better lives.

We as a human race, and the Europeans especially, should have grown past the desire to make our country bigger by now. Nationalistic pride has given nothing but war and strife throughout the past century, and its because people are more worried about where some line on a map is, than what their standard of living is. It's all foolishness, and it's terrible foolishness because it ends in so much pain.

[Dr. Nick]

The last time I checked Palestine didn't have a country.