A good result in Blackburn last night?

[Provost Harrison]

Where do you live Clear Skies?

[Seneca]

I'm not sure what this means. It could be like when the NUS was taken over by Trots a couple of years back - it didn't mean that all students were suddenly fervent leftists, just that it was only the nutters who got interested in the election.

[Clear Skies]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
Where do you live Clear Skies?

Not far from Longridge, which is pretty much equidistant from Preston and Blackburn.

[MRT144]

TAKE THAT PROVOST HARRISON!

[The Puny Celt]

I thought this was going to be about Celtic...but it's only a politics thread again.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

I thought I'd do a quick intro to the more prominent members of the BNP, for the benefit of anyone in any doubt on this "party".

Nick Griffin- (Leader since 1998)

Criminal convictions- Incitement to racial hatred in 2000 (6 months suspended)

Notes- Originally prominent in the pro-Nazi National Front. In 1988 he went to Tripoli courtesy of Gadaffi in the hope of securing funding. Unfortunately all they got was 5,000 copies of Colonel Gadaffi's Green Book.
In 1991 Griffin and a number of other NF leaders left the NF to form the International Third Position, a small but fanatical fascist group. One of the figures behind the ITP was Roberto Fiore, an Italian fascist who fled to London with up to forty others to escape police capture. Fiore was later convicted in absentia. Some of Fiore's associates were behind the Bologna station bombing in 1980 that killed 80 people.
Former editor/publisher of anti-semitic journal "The Rune"

John Tydall- (Former leader)

Criminal convictions- Being a member of a paramilitary organisation (1950's).

Notes- A member of British nazi groups since the 1940's. Founder of the BNP and former leader of the National Front. Founded the extreme-right terror organisation C18.


Tony Lecomber - Group Development Organiser, and branch organiser for Redbridge. Third most powerful member of the BNP.

Criminal convictions- 1980s - Two convictions for criminal damage. 1985 - Convicted and imprisoned on five counts for offences under the Explosives Act (Making and detonating a nailbomb in an attempt to endanger life, possession of detonators and hand grenades. 1991 - Sentenced to three years' imprisonment for an attack (with 5 other men) on a Jewish schoolteacher.

Notes- Inaugural member of the BNP. Previously edited the journal Young Nationalist, a heavily racist and anti-Semitic magazine. One of his assistants was David Copeland, the Soho nailbomber who was imprisoned for murder after nailbombing gay bars.


Paul Ballard- Branch organiser for Croydon & Surrey

Criminal convictions- Incitement to racial hatred in 2000 (6 months suspended)

Notes- C18 activist in early 90's.


Colin Smith- Regional organiser for South East London

Criminal convictions- Has multiple convictions, including possession of an offensive weapon, driving whilst disqualified, and possession of a controlled drug.

Notes- Ex-member of the openly nazi British Movement before leaving to join the BNP in the early 1990s. 1981 - photographed wearing a British Movement jacket with a swastika armband at a British Movement rally


Stephen Belshaw- Regional organiser for the East Midlands

Criminal convictions- Convicted of violent disorder for an attack on a Mansfield solicitor in 1993.

Notes- C18 activist 1992- 1993


Graham Tasker- Branch organiser for Chesterfield

Criminal convictions- 1989 - Six months custody for an attack on a black woman. 1993 - Convicted of violent disorder for an attack on a Mansfield solicitor.

Notes- 1992 - Active in the Ku Klux Klan, burning crosses in the Derbyshire countryside. 1992-1993 - Activist with C18 both in the East Midlands and in London.


David Hannam- Branch organiser for Hull

Criminal convictions- 2000 - Three months custody for his part in the production and distribution of a racist and anti-Semitic leaflet during the 1999 European election campaign


Paul Thompson- Branch organiser for County Durham

Criminal convictions- Sentenced to a year's conditional discharge and made to pay £237 compensation. July 1998 - Convicted for violence and jailed for six months. July 1998 - Convicted for violence after attacking football fans in Darlington town centre.


Kevin Scott- Regional organiser for the North East and branch organiser for Newcastle

Criminal convictions- 1987 - Conviction for assault. 1993 - Conviction for using threatening words and behaviour


Warren Bennett- Chief Steward and branch organiser for Edinburgh

Criminal convictions- 1990 - Conviction for public disorder. Was among 58 Scottish supporters prevented from attending the Scotland match with Norway in Bordeaux, France during the 1998 World Cup

Notes- C18 activist 1992- 1995


Andy McLorie- Regional organiser for Ulster

Criminal convictions- 1986 - Sentenced to two years in jail following a petrol bomb attack on the home of an RUC officer


Ricard Edmonds- National organiser

Criminal convictions- Sentenced to six months imprisonment for a racially-motivated assault in 1994.


Jason Douglas- Redbridge activist and candidate.

Criminal convictions- Known football hooligan with a string of convictions for violence going back 12 years.


Robert Bennett- Oldham campaign organiser

Criminal convictions- Convicted rapist- jailed in the 1990's for violent sexual offences.


Rob Gray- Regional activist

Criminal convictions- 1994 - Imprisoned for violent disorder and assaulting a police officer. 1997 - Imprisoned for possessing and distributing material likely to incite racial hatred. "The Stormer" was the magazine of West London Combat 18.

Notes- C18 activist 1992-1997


Warren Glass- BNP member - until 1998 he was the BNP West London organiser

Notes- C18 member/activist 1992- 1999. 1999 - Joined C18 and football hooligans in an attempted attack on the Bloody Sunday demonstration in London.Links to the British Ulster Alliance.


Barnaby Ore- Essex-based BNP activist. Previously head of the Young BNP.

Notes- Close friend of Soho nailbomber David Copeland, and the man who introduced Copeland to the National Alliance, arguably the most extreme nazi group in the US.


Steve Smith- Burnley activist and candidate.

Criminal convictions- Imprisoned in 1999 for electoral fraud


The list just goes on and on.....



Spink. Why did you use the word "we"?

[*End Is Forever*]

The BNP have done a fine job in convincing a small minority of idiots (like Stew) that they're a credible mainstream political party. They certain have a few very intelligent people at BNP HQ, and have become pretty good at portraying themselves as the "victims". That doesn't hide the fact that the majority of the party leadership are criminal, racist, homophobic scum, as Alex went into in some depth before.

Incidentally, I think possibly the scariest section of the BNP is the YBNP "Supporters' Club". I feel so sorry for Jennifer Griffin; looks like a pretty, intelligence 15-year-old girl and yet her mind has been poisoned by the people around her.

Unfortunately for the mainstream majority, certain groups "fighting against fascism" aren't doing the cause any good. On one hand you've got the Anti-Nazi League, which sounds good in theory until you realise that the majority of the ANL are members of the extreme-left out to push their own extremist agenda. You also get lots of well-meaning people - normally students - pushing leaflets through doors in Burnley, Oldham and elsewhere saying how bad the BNP are. This is playing into their hands; opponents of the BNP must campaign positively or else they are just doing the extreme-right a favour.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Sorry, but I disagree. Your comments on the ANL don't reflect my own experience of it. I was a member for four years, and a member of the Anti-Racist Alliance for six. While there was certainly representation from the SWP and RCP, the majority I associated with weren't particularly political, and there certainly no issue with my own (decidedly non-extremist) politics.

If you're saying "The ANL is just as bad" why not back it up as I've done above? They aren't. It's that simple. What's more, if the BNP is campaigning in your area, the best way of dealing with them is to follow them around and noisily inform the constituents of their candidate's criminal/political record.

[*End Is Forever*]

I don't think they are "just as bad", but in my experience of the ANL they certainly don't help. Here in York the leading ANL member is also the SWSS ringleader. He's a mature student who claims to have been part of the "fight against the BNP" in Tower Hamlets back in 1992 (I think). He's as closed-minded as they come (denouncing anyone he disagrees with, be they Tory, LibDem, Labour or apolitical a "fascist" despite the fact that liberal use of the word undermines the meaning when it comes to meeting a real fascist), has verbally abused and physically threatened myself and others over the past year, and is also (along with most students on the extreme-left) blatantly anti-Jewish (rather ironic for a self-proclaimed "anti-racist and anti-fascist").

I'd love to say that this person is an aberration but from what I've heard it seems unlikely. There are undoubtedly many well-meaning people within the anti-racist movements but they seem to get outshouted when push comes to shove. I'd also still fundamentally question the tactic of being "anti" the BNP, rather than pro- the alternative. Obviously informing people of the BNP members' often shady past is worth doing, but incoherent babble pushed through letterboxes by students (be they well-meaning or self-promoting) is, in my opinion, only likely to provoke people into voting BNP more.

[Rage]

A lot of members or supporters of the BNP are not racsist. They are just angry at fanatical muslims declaring that Islam is the future for Britain(As long as these Bast*rds are doing this there will always be a BNP). The ANL where there of course but they didnt seem to care about the offensive behaviour of these muslims only the BNP who were protesting against them.

I agree with a lot of the official policies of the BNP I do not however agree with the personal vievs of many in the leadership who view non whites as inferior. IMO it will be far better for the party to get rid of the rascist extremists at the top and get people who are not rascists just Pro-British.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Anyone who isn't racist, yet supports the BNP, is just plain stupid. It takes a very special type of person to think that voting for violent racists and perverts is going to solve racial tension.

Put your balls where your mouth is, Rage. Which policies do you agree with?

[Rage]

1)A mass expansion of freedom and democracy to roll back the erosion of our traditional freedoms and truly reflect the wishes of the people; the adoption of popular referenda and hi-tech direct democracy

2)The establishment of a government that puts British interests first.

An end to immigration and the scandal of bogus asylum-seekers flooding Britain. The use of the billions now wasted in foreign aid to fund generous "Homeward Bound" schemes to encourage immigrants to return to their lands of origin.

3)The use of the £1 million per hour we at present pay the E.U. to fund the restoration of an effective National Health Service and proactive measures to a healthier population in the first place.

4)A crack-down on crime and tougher treatment of criminals, including the return of the death penalty for child killers and terrorists.

5)An alternative defense strategy based on the principle of armed neutrality; no British blood should be shed in conflicts which do not involve vital British interests. The restoration of the County Regiment system and the reversal of defense cuts which have weakened our Armed Forces and cost thousands of jobs.

6)The crushing of the IRA and other terrorist groups, the termination of the Anglo-Irish agreement and the establishment of a devolved, non-sectarian parliament in Northern Ireland.

[Rage]

Oh, and BTW I have never voted for the BNP in any elections. Like I said I agree with some of their policies.

[spartak]

Originally posted by Rage
2)The establishment of a government that puts British interests first.

An end to immigration and the scandal of bogus asylum-seekers flooding Britain. The use of the billions now wasted in foreign aid to fund generous "Homeward Bound" schemes to encourage immigrants to return to their lands of origin.

4)A crack-down on crime and tougher treatment of criminals,

Based on at least 2 of those you appear to be Mr Tony. More seriously have you any idea how simplistic some of those ideas you have just advocated actually are?

No recent government advocates letting bogus asylum seekers in but to listen to some its as if the "problem" is as easy to solve as waving a magic wand. Its actually not that easy and in case you didn't notice a lot of recent government legislation has run into trouble and opposition, not least fronm the judiciary, who have asserted that a lot of it strikes at basic human rights and freedoms. How do you solve the problem then? Taken even more rights and freedoms away? And how will you do that while asserting traditional British rights? Do tell I'm all ears.

Also incase you hadn't noticed, Straw and Blunkett have actually managed to be more reactionary and knee-jerk than Howard ever was. How will you top that? Maybe more attacks on basic freedoms and human rights*?

How will you shut down the IRA without more of the same?

Throwing more money at the health service - didn't you notice the government already did that? Where is the improvement? We need more doctors and Nurses not more money in the system.

All this and you also want

A mass expansion of freedom and democracy to roll back the erosion of our traditional freedoms

Do you not see the internal contradictions of what you advocate?

* Please note that the European Declaration on Human Rights was actually drafted by the British Government in the 1950's

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Originally posted by Rage
1)A mass expansion of freedom and democracy to roll back the erosion of our traditional freedoms and truly reflect the wishes of the people; the adoption of popular referenda and hi-tech direct democracy

This "expansion of freedom and democracy" is selectively applied, however. Here's a quote directly from the BNP's site-

"BNP councillors will lobby vigorously for local British people to be given priority on the housing waiting list - before bogus 'asylum seekers' and other newcomers. We shouldn't house outsiders while our own people have to sleep rough."

The same applies to jobs as well, and don't you just love the use of those crucial phrases "local" and "Newcomer"? In other words, your democratic rights might be altered, but forget it being for the better if you aren't white.

2)The establishment of a government that puts British interests first.

An end to immigration and the scandal of bogus asylum-seekers flooding Britain. The use of the billions now wasted in foreign aid to fund generous "Homeward Bound" schemes to encourage immigrants to return to their lands of origin.

That's a thread all to itself as far as asylum seekers are concerned. Start one, if you feel like being masochistic. Meanwhile, when you're talking about an immigrant community in Britain that numbers in millions, those schemes suddenly don't look so generous.

The BNP's housing policy is founded on getting millions of people from ethnic minority backgrounds out of Britain. These plans look no more credible than Hitler's policy to rehome Europe's jews in Palestine advocated in the 1930's.

3)The use of the £1 million per hour we at present pay the E.U. to fund the restoration of an effective National Health Service and proactive measures to a healthier population in the first place.

Well we all want a decent NHS, but not at the expense of being an isolated state. We don't have the Empire any more.

4)A crack-down on crime and tougher treatment of criminals, including the return of the death penalty for child killers and terrorists.

Here's one of my favourite proposed BNP laws, from their website.

"The families of anti-white racist thugs should face eviction. "

Great concept. Punish them regardless of whether they've committed a crime or not. It's their fault for being a bunch of darkies anyway. Incidentally, there's no corresponding law for whites. Surprised?

5)An alternative defense strategy based on the principle of armed neutrality; no British blood should be shed in conflicts which do not involve vital British interests. The restoration of the County Regiment system and the reversal of defense cuts which have weakened our Armed Forces and cost thousands of jobs.

Fab. An isolationist state. That makes Britain's involvement in WW2 an act of treachery, I suppose. All the fascists in the 1930's certainly thought so.

6)The crushing of the IRA and other terrorist groups, the termination of the Anglo-Irish agreement and the establishment of a devolved, non-sectarian parliament in Northern Ireland.

Do you not see the irony of the BNP calling for the crushing of terrorist groups when it's senior executive is full of bombers and people linked with C18 (a terrorist group)? Plus the fact that the BNP has a raging horn for the Loyalist terrorist factions, choosing to ignore the fact that they're a murderous bunch of drug dealers? Hey! As long as they're just killing bog-trotters they're just a loveable bunch of scamps, right?

The IRA is at ceasefire. Do you honestly think the above suggestion will work? I don't. Contrary to what the BNP suggests, I think there's no simple solution to the Ulster question, and any measures will take generations to have any degree of success. I'd rate the Anglo-Irish process as the best shot, however.


When you're dealing with the BNP, you're dealing with a party that will consistently seize upon any "trendy" issues of controversy and leap enthusiastically upon the bandwagon. Their central, racist agenda is the constant however. That's why any non-racist supporting them is a fool.