The shame nations of WWII.

[Ned]

Originally posted by paiktis22
If I am to be banned then so should be the myriad of posters that have ganged up on me insulting and trolling me.

Simply because they can't handle the truth which I amptly provide.

paiktis, I hope you don't get banned too often. I mostly agree with you.

[chequita guevara]

Actually Ned, both racism increased in the US following the war, as Black people, having been treated as equals by Europeans, were in no mood to go back to being second class citizens. This "uppitiness" provoked severe reactions, and not a few lynchings.

While the worst aspects of anti-Semitism were done away with by guilt following the revalation of the death camps in Germany, Jews were widely suspected of being in league with the USSR, and McCarthyism wasn't very kind at all to them.

What ultimately forced the US to change was the fact that the USSR was competing for the hearts and minds of Israel and Africa. The US, being as overtly racist as it was, couldn't talk to Africa about the benefits of the American system, which most Africans could see was a raw deal.

[GePap]

The levels of active cooperation with the Nazi regime varied greatly across all levels: we forget that the Nazi message was not only anti-semitic but also anti-communist and pro-nationalist. So, not only anti-semites, but ultra-nationalists and anti-communists were likely to join with the Nazis. (this would have been true of anglo-phone states. Speaking english does not change human nature).

For example: Many of the men who volunteered to help the Nazi from occupied territories did so to join the anti-communist crusade out east, where most of the Axis troops were used during the entire war. The Spanish Blue division and Nordic SS divisions are an exmaple.

Many states allied with Nazi germany since their strategic aims coencided with german aim: Hungary and Romania both gained territory (though Romania did have to return Transylvania to hungary). Slovak and Croatin ultra-nationalist got their own independent states out of working with the Germans.

So to measure the level of cooperation and colaboration with Nazi germany simply from a perspective of the Holocaust is higly inaccurate. THe main point between 1939 and 1945 was the Big War going on and what that meant for all involved. the mass killings of Jews, which was an aim particular to the Nazi regime, not to ANY of the colaborationalist regimes, was part fo that war, and coopertion in that a price to pay for the benfits Nazi vitory might bring to those that helped them. The War was the point, with the Holocaust (that name coming into use aftrewards) being a part of it, not a separate and divorced issue, as it has now become.

[Gangerolf]

Norway's shameful slavish submission to Nazi Germany is known the world over.

that's just rediculous. and quite offensive as well.

well I won't feed the troll anymore, but I can recommend you some good WW2 history reading if you want me to.

[Ned]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Actually Ned, both racism increased in the US following the war, as Black people, having been treated as equals by Europeans, were in no mood to go back to being second class citizens. This "uppitiness" provoked severe reactions, and not a few lynchings.

While the worst aspects of anti-Semitism were done away with by guilt following the revalation of the death camps in Germany, Jews were widely suspected of being in league with the USSR, and McCarthyism wasn't very kind at all to them.

What ultimately forced the US to change was the fact that the USSR was competing for the hearts and minds of Israel and Africa. The US, being as overtly racist as it was, couldn't talk to Africa about the benefits of the American system, which most Africans could see was a raw deal.

Che, here is a link that gives a history of desegregation in the Armed Forces. It shows that the effort began in 1945 and picked up steam in the last part of the '40s. It had nothing to do with the USSR.

Truman Administration & the Desegregation of the Armed Forces

[VetLegion]

Yog-Sothoth, are you a rare poster? It must be it , otherwise, you have to know the forum phenomena called 'troll' . While usually they roam in herds, the over-hunting policy of the current administration has left this poor little troll hatchling alive, perhaps for some sort of a natural park. in any case, laugh, ignore, move forward. The trolls, esp. in their young adult form e.g. paiktis

anyway paiktis, when a Greek bashes another country for ethnic cleansing I need a few days to recover from too much laughing jesus, you folks practicaly invented the term

and ethnic purity is a constant of Greek policy

be it faschism, dictatorship, 'democracy', you name it

Be it Turks, Bulgarians, or Macedonians, you name it

Be it 1822 or 21st century (artificial) member of EU, you name it

A constant. And we are not talking about extremists in power here. We are talking about massive support from the people. We are talking about huge nationalistic rallies. We are talking about Orthodox church as a pillar and supporter of the hatred.

We are talking about 180 years of continued of xenophobia. Throughout regimes, deeply rooted in the Greeks.

It is only right that you, in a moment of meditation and self-reflection, decided to start this thread

Greece will join the modern world when it can look at its past and admit all the terrible things it did.

In 25, 50 or 100 years Greek prime ministers will be apologising to all the nations Greeks hurt in their history. Jews included.

Then Greece wil truly be a part of Europe. Until then, sorry, but you are just an endless hole to pour funds in because of reasons of geopolitics. The most western part of middle east and you know it

so you can keep trying to divert attention from Greece, but we know the facts. And you know them too and you cant escape them, but keep making us laugh



Everyone: I ll start a thread about wwII Croatia soon, I see there is some interest.

[VetLegion]

Originally posted by paiktis22:
Nazis once, nazis for ever. And that's Croatia.

So what does that make the Greeks after two fascist dicatorships?

this is an instant classic! thanks

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ned
Che, here is a link that gives a history of desegregation in the Armed Forces. It shows that the effort began in 1945 and picked up steam in the last part of the '40s. It had nothing to do with the USSR.

That's the armed forces, not the US in general. The US simply could not say to Africa that the USSR meant slavery and the US freedom while it still held ten percent of its own country as second class citizens.

[Chris 62]

Man, what a free for all!

I would like to say it's rather pointless to say what country was "evil" for helping the Nazis, all the occupied nations did to a degree (with the exception of the Danes) contribute to the holocaust.

As for Sweden, it was Nazi Germany's MAIN supplier of Iron ore, not weapons, although the Germans built weapons from Swedish patents (so did the allies), they were hardly the Reich's weapon storage point.

Hitler considered the ore from Sweden so critical he invaded Norway to protect it (Swedish ore was moved by rail to the Norwegan port of Narvik, then shipped from there), and felt the effort to take over Sweden wasn't worth the gamble if the Swedes destroyed the mines, the Swedes in their turn sold Germany all it wanted, you can draw your own moral conclusions.

Dr Strangelove was incorrect, France supplied far more men to the Allies then it ever did to Germany, the Vichy forces never served Germany, in fact in North Africa they would be the backbone of an army 250,000 strong that fought extrely well in Italy, southern and eastern france (and fough more effectivly then the Brits or Yanks for that matter).

It seems my comrade of the blood was just looking to rile the people up, for shame.

[Wernazuma III]

Originally posted by Lord Merciless
Yes, Austria. It's definitely the most shameful country. First, it produced Hitler, then hordes of SS troops, and finally, denied any responsiblities after the war.

For "producing Hitler" you can't blame Austria. Hitler was a single person and after all he made his way in Germany. The general Nazi-fever in Austria is the most shameful chapter in our history though. It was the complex of "we have to be more German than Germans" which was prevalent in Austria and among Czech Germans (Sudeten). This was already noticed before. Especially those who considered themselves Germans in areas with large Slavic influence had to "proof" their "Germanhood". Those guys had often typical Aryan last names like "Glawognigg". Of course Odilo Glawognigg...
Austrians were heavily in the SS, but also in the "administration" of the "Jewish question".

After the war, as Austrians are very opportunistic, we were all poor exploited victims of course. Yet, the post-war politicians in Austria were those who were imprisoned in KZ or lived in exile. The Austrian state WAS a victim, most Austrians though weren't, so Austria should have started to take up responsability much earlier than it actually did.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Wernazuma III


For "producing Hitler" you can't blame Austria. Hitler was a single person and after all he made his way in Germany. The general Nazi-fever in Austria is the most shameful chapter in our history though. It was the complex of "we have to be more German than Germans" which was prevalent in Austria and among Czech Germans (Sudeten). This was already noticed before. Especially those who considered themselves Germans in areas with large Slavic influence had to "proof" their "Germanhood". Those guys had often typical Aryan last names like "Glawognigg". Of course Odilo Glawognigg...
Austrians were heavily in the SS, but also in the "administration" of the "Jewish question".

After the war, as Austrians are very opportunistic, we were all poor exploited victims of course. Yet, the post-war politicians in Austria were those who were imprisoned in KZ or lived in exile. The Austrian state WAS a victim, most Austrians though weren't, so Austria should have started to take up responsability much earlier than it actually did.

Did Austria kick in and help Germany pay reparations to the Jews and others it killed and stole from?

[Vanguard]

A number of former allied countries actually supplied more troops for the axis cause than for the allies. Included among these were France, Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, and Greece.

Completely untrue, except for Denmark and maybe Holland.

Aside from Poland, France was the first nation to declare war on Germany. They provided a couple of million soldiers to the Allies in 1940, and then provided a million more in 1944, despite the fact that almost all their 1940 soldiers were still in German POW camps. The French even offered to continue the war against Germany in 1940 if the US would enter the war. But we cravenly declined.

Greece fought a very tough campaign against the Italians, holding them to a complete standstill before being outflanked by the Germans due to a rather stupid perimeter defense strategy. The number of Greek volunteers to pro-fascist causes was certainly far less than the combat strength of the Greek army and probably had more to do with avoiding POW camp than sympathy with the Germans.

The blame for WW2 resides solely with Germany/Austria. While other nations merit some shame, it is so well distributed that calling out names is pointless. We should all just get together and blame Germany. They are the ones who deserve it.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by paiktis22
Given the rampant antisemtitic hysteria in Britain, I am only happy that it was not occupied....
Same goes fro the US and its founding fathers, as we all know.

Actually the American Revolution was funded by Jews. Without them we would never have been able to fund Washington's army long enough to win French support.

[atawa]

Originally posted by Vanguard


Completely untrue, except for Denmark and maybe Holland.

You must have forgotten our whole army went up against the germans, not that it mattered much...........

Anyway, why isnt the US on the country's of shame list?

Killing a couple of hundreds of thousends of children, woman and elderly is off course no big deal if you're fighting for democracy

[Serb]

Please, tell us more
Amsterdam should be amazing city, what kind of stuff you have smoked today?