The shame nations of WWII.

[Stefu]

Italy and Japan were Germany's allies. Finland was Germany's co-belligerent. There's a difference, you know.

[Viking Berserk]

co-billegerant or ally, use what title u want, its like king or emperor (almost same thing).
the important thing is that u helped germany.

[Rasbelin]

Re: The shame nations of WWII.

Originally posted by paiktis22

Which were the countries which colaborated with the nazis and helped actively in the killing of peoples and the extermination of Jews?

And when did we "actively help" in killing Jews?

I know 4.

Really?

Paiktis:

[axi]

I didn't expect a troll about the two fascist dictatorships of Greece by chegitz, no I didn't. Because the first in 1936 was supported by the English to establish the domination of the right against the democratic forces and the first thing it did was lock up all the communists. And the second, in 1967, was enforced to the country with exactly the same goals, only it was supported by the US this time. The vast majority of the population was opposed to them. However, when the Italans invaded Epire in 1940 and when the Turks invaded Cyprus in 1974 respectively, the people were willing to fight, even under those regimes and were more willing to fight than their leadership was. During the German invasion in April 1941, many officers who were fascists with an admiration for Germany were defeatist and went for a quick surrender, forming a quisling government afterwards. In 1974 it is well known that the juntists themselves provoked the Attila, by trying to overthrow Makarios.

As for the Greek Jews: my own estimation is that they were unfortunate enough to be the 2nd biggest minority in a country with a very high ethnic homogeneity, which means they were sticking out of the bunch. Furthermore, they were unfortunately cncentrated into the urban areas and specifically in the city of Thessaloniki, which meant that they were ripe for the picking and could not be under the protection of the guelillas, who controlled most of the countryside by 1944. The quick collapse of the Macedonian front in April of 1941 did not give them enough time to flee, but I guess that even if they had time, most of them would not have fled, since the extent of the Holocaust was not widely known in the Allied side that early into the war. And last but not least, Thessaloniki in 1941 was in Greek hands only for about 30 years, meaning the Jews of the city did not have enough time to blend in.

I don't say that the collaborators were not to blame for that too. Many of them took advantage of it, in order to steal the Jewish properties. What's maddening me however is that the Allies, after setting foot in Greece, helped the collaborators of the Germans back into their positions, since they were the most loyal anti-communist elements. During the civil war, the various "chites" and "tagmatasfalites" who were hunting down communists were the same people that were the puppet troops of the Germans.

[Vanguard]

Read any history of the war in Italy, the French where tough moutain fighters, the US didn't even have a single moutain division till late in the war.

The US and Britsh way was unsuited to Italy.

The same is true of Southern France, the Rhone valley and the area around Colmar, rough terrain, and the French were masters here.


----------------------------------------------
OK, I understand what you are saying...I thought you were saying that units such as the French 2nd Armored under Leclerc outfought equivalent US units in that sector. I'd agree that the French alpine troops were superior, but I'd disagree with a statement saying French armor and other units operating further north were superior.

My grandfather has the highest regard for the French forces he fought with near Colmar. He says the French armor there was the most aggressive and effective he saw during the war. And this is from a man who fought alongside Patton's tanks in the Ardennes and against SS armor.

As an infantryman he especially appreciated the fact that French tanks would actually lead the way into battle instead of waiting for the infantry to go ahead and reveal where all the traps were.

BTW, when I said that Denmark and Holland might have contributed more volunteers to the Axis than to the Allies, I did not mean to imply that they were collaborationist, only that they had tiny armies that were forced to surrender quickly.

Denmark really had no effective army at all and thus any volunteers would mean that they fall into this category. This is not really a shame to Denmark: they could not possibly have raised an army capable of resisting Germany, so why waste money building one at all?

[Viking Berserk]

the topic is shame nations of ww2 right?
that goes for everything.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Ming
Serb and David Floyd...

CHILL... stop your petty bickering and threadjacking.

I don't care who started it, but I'm ending it right now.

The next one of you that continues this ANYWHERE in these forums is going to get restricted.

Oh, come on, we don’t fight, we are just playing and I'm absolutely chill.
David, tell to him that we are not enemies.


As for threadjack, I'm absolutely agree.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Stefu


Finland was never an ally of Germany. It was Germany's co-belligerent.

You must be joking, right?

[Stefu]

There wasn't a treaty of alliance between Finland and Germany.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Serb
we are just playing

If you consider what you were doing "playing"... then play somewhere else, because if you continue to "play" here, you will get restricted again...

[Ned]

Originally posted by Vanguard

Denmark really had no effective army at all and thus any volunteers would mean that they fall into this category. This is not really a shame to Denmark: they could not possibly have raised an army capable of resisting Germany, so why waste money building one at all?

This raises a question: Where was Denmark diplomatically prior to WWII? If it were in the anti-German alliance that Britain and France put together in 1939, they were asking for it.

[Jaakko]

The way I like to think about Finland's participation in WW2 is that the big countries wanted to screw us, but we pulled a fast one on all those who tried to.
The one country I can say acted reasonably fair was the US, who never even declared war.

[Serb]

If you consider what you were doing "playing"... then play somewhere else, because if you continue to "play" here, you will get restricted again...

Why do you threaten two peaceful civilians who had conversation about their past conversation?
It's so cruel.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Stefu
There wasn't a treaty of alliance between Finland and Germany.

And it somehow changes the fact that their forces fought together?

[Jaakko]

Hey Serb, what do you think Finland should have done once it found out Stalin's intention to make it another oppressed satellite state?