Racial controversy

[MikeH]

Look, I'm not handedist but I don't see why there's all this fuss about things like Joysticks and scissors being made for right handed people only. I don't care if you are left handed but I don't need to see you using your left hands in public.

Some of my best friends are left handed!

[TheStinger]

the thing is its their choice to be lefties why should god fearing right handed peole have to pay for their lifstyle choice.

[MikeH]

Hey, don't bring religion into it. Jesus had both his hands equally nailed to the cross you know!

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Ramo

Actually, Arabs are Semites, not Indo-Europeans (turning language groups into "racial" categories is incredibly tenuous BTW). And some Indians, for instance Dravidians, aren't Indo-Europeans either.

Semites are Caucasians. Yes, I'm aware that the Dravidians of southern India are different, but if you give the current government of India sufficient time this problem will eventually go away.

[gsmoove23]

For that matter religious people need to be rounded up, after all a link between religion and brain physiology has been proven and these dangerous ideas need to be stamped out. Perhaps sterilization would be the correct approach.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Dr. S., shhhhh!

It's true, they are Caucausian, but they aren't white, at least by some people's definition. Hell, Arabs aren't even a phenotype group, but simply a people linked by language. This is part of my point about the mutable concept of race. By one definition, they are all members of the same race. By other definitions, they are all different races. How can we make determinations on the supposed abilities of one group or antoher when we can't even agree that the groups exist.

No, Arabs are a phentoypic group if you are referring to the people who inhabit the Arabian peninsula, Iraq, Syria and Jordan. Iranians and Egyptians aren't Arabs. There are many people of African descent in those areas of the middle east as well.

It is currently speculated that humans first left Africa 80,000 years ago by crossing a shallow part of the Red Sea into what is now Yemen. Those people were the predecessors of both Caucasians and Orientals. The peole who currently inhabit Arabia are not their direct descendents though. It is thought that the Aborigines of Australia, and some minor ethnic groups along the coast of India and Malaysia are genetically closest to the group that left Africa. The people who currently inhabit Arabia are descended from people who went north, evolved into Caucasians, then moved back south and "replaced" the original inhabitants of Arabia. It is apparent that under the relentless pressure of tropical sunlight the evolution of dark complexion occurs fairly quickly.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Caligastia, the suggestion is offensive because at the core of the main philosphical trend of western civilization is that all people are equal. The converse theme, that some people are better than others has led to immense suffering on this planet. Once the idea that some people are inherently better than others creeps in, it is used to justify all sorts of horrors. I highly doubt the crafters of "seperate, but equal" fully comprehended the evil that would done when they legalized segregation, but it was a natural and obvious outgrowth of the idea that "the races" aren't equal.

But even if you believe that races in general are not equal, you can still realise that people should be judged on an individual basis. When I am with people of different races, I don't make assumptions about them based on their race, I treat them as individuals. I don't look down on anyone because of their race. I consider all humans to be literally one big family.

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Even more offensive is that the idea is a lie. There is no proof whatsoever that "the races," whatever they are, are unequal. Every single "study" that shows Blacks to be the intellectual inferiors of whites has been decisively refuted. This can't be stated any more simply. You believe the racist lie because you want to believe it. To say otherwise is to say that there is a worldwide conspiracy of scientists that are trying to supress the truth. I just don't think so.

Its simply not true that all scientists agree on this matter. In any case, who has the burden of proof? Those who say the races are equal, or those who say they are not? Why should equality be the default assumption when there is no more proof of equality than there is of inequality?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by tinyp3nis

What's all this? Just when I said the reasons cannot be singled out in your examples, you still try to.

What is definately noticeable is that you have no understanding of logic.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
No, Arabs are a phentoypic group if you are referring to the people who inhabit the Arabian peninsula, Iraq, Syria and Jordan. Iranians and Egyptians aren't Arabs. There are many people of African descent in those areas of the middle east as well.

North Africans, except for the Berbers. Even the Maltese (sort of) are Arabs. Membership in the Arab nationality is defined by language, not phenotype, religion, or region of geographic origin. This is why the Arab League stretches from Morroco to Iraq. Egypt was the leader of pan-Arabism for decades. As nationality is an invented concept to begin with, it is up to each nation to decide how they define themselves.

Iranians don't even come in to the discussion. They were part of the Indo-European waves of barbarians that conquered the civilized world 4,000 to 1,500 years ago.

But your original point is correct, we are all Caucasians.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Caligastia
Its simply not true that all scientists agree on this matter. In any case, who has the burden of proof? Those who say the races are equal, or those who say they are not? Why should equality be the default assumption when there is no more proof of equality than there is of inequality?

I didn't say all scientist disagree with you, just the vast majority of them.

Why does the burden of proof lie with you? Because you are the one that is asserting something which has been disproven repeatedly over the last century.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


I didn't say all scientist disagree with you, just the vast majority of them.

Do you have anything to back that statement up with?

Why does the burden of proof lie with you? Because you are the one that is asserting something which has been disproven repeatedly over the last century.

How has "racial inequality" been "disproven"? To do that you would have to prove that all races are equal - something that has not been done.

[Az]

No, Arabs are a phentoypic group if you are referring to the people who inhabit the Arabian peninsula, Iraq, Syria and Jordan. Iranians and Egyptians aren't Arabs. There are many people of African descent in those areas of the middle east as well.

I am not sure I agree with that . The arab people that I know , look vastly differently from each other ( esp. the Christians, but I don't know why call them arabs anyway ).

there is no single phenotype of 'arab', incidentally , there is no single phenotype of 'jewish', either. It's the culture, silly.

[tinyp3nis]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


What is definately noticeable is that you have no understanding of logic.

Pretty strong statement, not even an assumption. Nice. Why don't you help me with superior logic and show me where exactly I don't "get" something? If you really believe what you said, I think it's pretty damn mean to leave me at this logicless state, wouldn't you agree?

[Ramo]

Do you have anything to back that statement up with?

No racist studies make it into peer-reviewed academic journals.

How has "racial inequality" been "disproven"? To do that you would have to prove that all races are equal - something that has not been done.

Again, there are no concievable differences in selection pressures on the various traits to which you refer (intelligence, agressiveness, etc.), and in similar environments, there are often vast differences in the perceptions of these traits on the people. Scientifically, your claim is pure and utter bull****. Furthermore, all statistical study racists have used to "demonstrate" their points are tainted with idiotic statistical techniques (i.e. The Bell Curve)

[tinyp3nis]

If there is any proof on the net that races are equally strong on intelligence, a link would be nice

edit: Well, any other quality than intelligence will be good as well.