Announcement

**JohnT** · October 28, 2002, 01:39

"The problem, in my view, is that teams are locked into their conferences. "

Tell it to the Southwest Conference.

**Ming** · October 28, 2002, 01:43

Originally posted by DanS
Especially important to dance, when you just can't bring yourself to say that ND is deserving because of its strength of schedule.

Again... I never said they do or don't...

But if you want to play that game fine... why don't you just admit that ND is treated better by the TV networks and the bowl commitees... you know it's true, but you seem afraid to admit the truth.

But if you are so sure they deserve it, why are you afraid to let them earn it on the field in a playoff.

Don't you think they could win?

A playoff system would allow ANY team that has proven themself during the season to have a chance win. And that's far more fair than the current system.

**JohnT** · October 28, 2002, 01:51

DanS: "When has an ND national championship bid hinged on being "unfairly" chosen by a bowl? Sure, ND might have displaced a no. 4 team, but the national championship wasn't on the line."

Not exactly based upon a bowl, but how the hell do you explain 1943, where ND lost the last game of the season and still wound up being #1?

Yeah, it was 60 years ago but still: don't tell us that ND doesn't get preferential treatment from the bowls or the polls. Another: They tied Michigan State at the end of the 1966 season and moved up to #1 - replacing Michigan State.

I don't think 11-0-0 Alabama was too happy about that, do you Dan?

Yeah, we have a perfect system. Let's never change it.

**Drake Tungsten** · October 28, 2002, 01:56

Yeah, we have a perfect system. Let's never change it.

I don't think that anyone is claiming this. Some of us just don't think that a playoff is such a great idea...

**JohnT** · October 28, 2002, 01:58

The plain and simple fact is this: The NCAA Division 1-A football champions are determined by opinion. That is not right!

**Drake Tungsten** · October 28, 2002, 02:02

The plain and simple fact is this: The NCAA Division 1-A football champions are determined by opinion. That is not right!

Why not? Opinion factors into decisions in other sports as well, even those with playoffs. Are you telling me that the RPI rankings in college basketball aren't based on opinion? Don't you feel horrible for the poor bubble teams who don't get a fair chance to win a title on the court?

The problem with college sports is that there are so many teams in Division I that it is impossible to accurately determine the best teams based on play alone. This isn't like the NFL or MLB, where you play almost every team in your half of the league. With the number of teams competing in college sports, opinion makers have to winnow the field down somewhat.

**DanS** · October 28, 2002, 02:06

"Again... I never said they do or don't... "

Never the affirmative. Always neutral. Dance, dance, dance.

"But if you want to play that game fine... why don't you just admit that ND is treated better by the TV networks and the bowl commitees... you know it's true, but you seem afraid to admit the truth."

I thought we already went through this. I will admit that affirmatively as obvious. But I think that this better treatment has little or nothing to do with the national championship.

"But if you are so sure they deserve it, why are you afraid to let them earn it on the field in a playoff."

Aren't they already earning it on the field?

JohnT: For comparison purposes, what do you believe the result would be from the NCAA basketball tournament?

**JohnT** · October 28, 2002, 02:06

Drake: Oh, puh-leeze. Sixty-five teams make it into the NCAA's! Barely, just barely, remotely similar to the football situation.

**DanS** · October 28, 2002, 02:10

Hope that wasn't the answer to my question?

**JohnT** · October 28, 2002, 02:13

Originally posted by DanS
JohnT: For comparison purposes, what do you believe the result would be from the NCAA basketball tournament?

I don't have that book.

Seriously, I'm sitting here with a copy of the NCAA Football Records book (2001 edition), flipping back and forth trying to compare bowls and polls and records and whatever. That site I found an hour ago helps too...

But a team has never won the NCAA's being seeded below, what, 11th (Villanova, iirc)? If you seriously want to expand the NCAA's just add another round (128 teams) and drop one game off the 32-game regular season schedule.

**DanS** · October 28, 2002, 02:15

OK, I'm asking you to make an educated guess based on incomplete information.

Would basketball, even with a long-standing tournament that is being held up as the ultimate of fairness

, produce any different variety than does football, without one?

**Drake Tungsten** · October 28, 2002, 02:15

Oh, puh-leeze. Sixty-five teams make it into the NCAA's! Barely, just barely, remotely similar to the football situation.

All a playoff does for football is to move the opinion makers a little farther away from picking the national title game. Someone still has to pick the teams that will play in the playoff and they'll have to do that based on opinion.

You could remove opinion all together by using Guynemer's playoff proposal, but I don't really think that anyone wants to see Bowling Green taking on Miami in the first round. The TV networks and NCAA certainly don't, so I don't think you have to worry about it. Like it or not, opinion is an integral part of the college game, with playoffs or without.

**Ming** · October 28, 2002, 02:17

Originally posted by DanS
Aren't they already earning it on the field?

All they are proving is that they can beat the teams that they have played.

If Miami. Oklahoma, Ohio St. and Georgia win all their games, they will have proved the same thing that ND has proved if ND also goes undefeated, no more or no less.

Again... how would you feel if ND was left out of the big dance if they didn't lose a game? You would be the first to whine how unfair it is... and fans from Ohio St and Georgia will have the same right to do the same if it happens to them... because if those teams do all go undefeated... three teams won't have a chance to prove they are the best.

**JohnT** · October 28, 2002, 02:21

Originally posted by DanS
OK, I'm asking you to make an educated guess based on incomplete information.

Would basketball, even with a long-standing tournament that is being held up as the ultimate of fairness

, produce any different variety than does football, without one?

The past 20 winners of the NCAA's are:

Maryland
Duke (3)
Mich. St.
CT
KY (2)
AZ
UCLA
AK
NC
UNLV
MI
KS
IN
Louisville
Villanova
Georgetown
NC State

3 repeat winners out of 20, compared to 7 out of 20 for the football polls. That seems statistically significant to me, but I'm not a mathioso.

**Drake Tungsten** · October 28, 2002, 02:23

Again... how would you feel if ND was left out of the big dance if they didn't lose a game? You would be the first to whine how unfair it is... and fans from Ohio St and Georgia will have the same right to do the same if it happens to them... because if those teams do all go undefeated... three teams won't have a chance to prove they are the best.

Ming, the whining is what makes college football great...

Announcement

Should BCS Be Replaced By Playoffs? -- Guynemer's Proposal

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment