Physical evidence of Jesus found?

[Chowlett]

See post just above.

PH - tomorrow, ok? If i have time. Now is bed.

[Lincoln]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Lincoln, does the prospect of an Atheist burning in Hell bother you?
Am I bad because it doesn't bother me? *snip*

It depends on who the atheist is. If it was PH burning I might try and fetch him a glass of water . For others I might be looking for some gasoline.

But seriously I can't stand to see anyone suffer and nothing angers me more than people who intentionally inflict suffering on others who have done them no harm. I suppose there is a certain amount of justice when those who delight in torturing others receive the same. For that catagory of people I have no sympathy -- but for even them there is hope if they repent. If they refuse even that grace then I am afraid I will have no tears for them.

[SlowwHand]

Oh well, it's not like I hope they burn or anything.
I figure Heaven to have plenty of elbow room.

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Chowlett
The issue of ignorance is a thorny one, and I admit to not knowing the answer. But the problem with your line is that it's just not true. You don't become saved through good deeds, because you'll never be perfect. You become saved by accepting that Jesus died in your place for that imperfection, and you must be truly sorry for your shortcomings. Your causality is reversed - you don't do good deeds to become saved, you do good deeds because you feel love for your Saviour.

That's the view espoused by the likes of Augustine and Aquinas, but the catholic church (or other christian churches AFAIK) have never stated that as a tenet.

It is interesting to note that the early church believed that anyone who followed "reason" or the logos are Christians even if they didn't know about Jesus. This idea was also resurrected (no pun intended) by Martin Luther.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
If God is Jesus's father, and Mary was his mother, then if Mary wasn't James's mother, how could James be his brother without being divinely born himself?

Right. How did I miss something that obvious?

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by monkspider
The way I have always viewed this issue is that Christianity is God's special revelation to the world. However, a non-christian can still be saved by god's general revelation, ie the set of morals that all humans seem to have (for example, it's wrong to torture babies for fun). So if someone is kind, compassionate, charitable, etc, they are likely to make it into heaven. Conversely, if a Christian fails to show these traits, they shouldnt' assume they will be saved simply on account of their Christian beliefs.

I agree, or at least think I do

I think that everybody has a chance to be saved

what about all the people in china in 100AD? (I won't go into before Christ even though I could)

I think that there are choices that they could have made for God

and we don't know who will be in heaven, that is for God who judges the heart (because while good works do usually show what is going on in the heart, they do not always)

Jon Miller

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin
Theory is they crucified some bloke, stuck a a sword through his side and wrapped him in a shroud in the exact manner that Jesus reportedly died.

The only thing that makes the shroud a fake is its age per radiocarbon dating .IIRC.

There's another thing.

If you put paint on somebody's face and wrap a long piece of cloth around his head, then unwind the cloth and lay it out flat, it wouldn't look like a face at all.

That is really the biggest strike against it.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Boshko
Except the handwriting is characteristic for mid first-century aramaic and that form of burial ended in 70 AD so there's a relatively narrow window.

Handwriting? I saw some footage and what was on the stone thingie - whatever you call it - didn't look like handwriting at all. It looked like inscriptions - carved in stone.

For one thing, I would seriously doubt that any kind of writing on a piece of rock will survive the test of time, as it were.

Even if it is handwriting, how can we tell it is not a forgery? Even Hitler's own handwriting can be forged.

[chequita guevara]

They can test the patina, or the crust, that builds up on rocks exposed to air and weather over time. If it passes that test, the can determine how old (roughly) the box and writing are.

[Urban Ranger]

Hm, that's not going to be accurate to any degree of precision they wanted. For one thing, this buildup is very environmentally dependent. Since the stone box didn't come out of an archaeological site, there is no way anybody can tell what conditions had it been subjected to. For example, if the box had been in constant use, you wouldn't be able to find much of a crust.

Don't get me wrong, this will be a very significant find if it can be shown to be authentic, which is something very difficult.

[Jon Miller]

you are hilarious urban

if it was any other archeological find, you would not be doubting it's authenticity this much

they will do the normal tests, I am sure

Jon Miller

[Boris Godunov]

The Bible does seem to support Jesus having siblings:

http://www.execulink.com/~wblank/maryoth.htm

Nothing in the Bible states that Mary died a virgin, does it?

[Ned]

Che, Have you ever noticed how communist-like Jesus was? The "meek" shall inherit the Earth, etc.

[chequita guevara]

I did notice it, yes. That's why it was rather easy for me to transition from one to the other.

[Urban Ranger]

According to the gospels, Jesus and his apostles lived in a commune.