Uncle oSAMa wants you.

[NeOmega]

Here is Texas REPUBLICAN Representative Ron Paul's take on this invasion.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul52.html

[Chris 62]

Originally posted by NeOmega
I asked you a legit question. I'll just assume you are dumb enough to trust Iraqi policemen to do the bidding of Americans.

Good god, you ARE this stupid!
You have to be a real asswipe to think an Iraqi policemen would not protect his own people.
You don't know much, do you, I mean about anything.

Adroit. But this has nothing to do with oil, right? Good god, you walked right into the trap like it was a cong bungee pit.

The depth of your density is immense.
Mike and I were discussing whether massive aid would be needed to restore Iraq, ala Afghanistan, and you think that equates to the US is attacking to secure oil.
You really are a sipmleton.

I know your the same guy as the idiot over at CFC who power trips all the time, but geez, Chris 62 must be your stupid alter ego.

Your even stupider here then there, but here you have friends, there, nothing.

Russia and France, and they are dead set against this ivasion, yet, they somehow are beginning to warm up and compromise. But you don't think the U.S. would ever compromise do you?

And why does the interests of Paris and Moscow be of such interest to you?
Like I told you before, your no debater, you attempt to twist and turn, but fail, because basically your an idiot.
Miuke and I were discussing possible scenarios after Saddam fails the latest inspection game, and like a moron your trying to turn the thread into a "no war" speel!
Pay attention.

Your whole plan for occupation of Iraq was about the stupidist thing I ever read.

Reread your own posts, they drawf anything anybody says in the stupid department.

Those rebuttals took no time at all because they were so easy.

Stupid too.

Your re-occupation plan is full of obvious holes even to the most amateur of observers. Oh wait.....

How can you "re-occupy" something you have never occupied?
Welcome to Apolyton, your density is welcome, here you will find real libitarians, and people that make it difficult to present a postion.
A simp like you hasn't got a chance!

<- Look! now I am as funny as Chris 62.

Nope, you lack wit as well as wisdom, but your welcome to keep making a fool of yourself.
I certainly enjoy it.

[NeOmega]

Fool of myself? To who? It's just me and you and a couple of kids from around the world, if they bother to even take the time to read it.

Fact is, I am never going back to CFC's OT, becasue I hear from a lot of people some jerk runs it, so I went to see, and yup.

Of course, I like to be able to make "bombastic" statements, and not have some hypocrite threaten to delete it, event though that Alabacities of Athenae guy sure can be insulting and "bombastic" himself.

I like it over here though..... cuz I find your lameness quite entertaining.

Oh... cops and the underworld.... it happens, especially in international politics.

Oh, and I did take the time to see what the discussion was about.....

Oh, and, I have lots of "friends" as you call them, I would more likely call them fellow enthusiasts, at CFC in the C&C forums, you know, the real forums.

wait, I forgot, I gotta spatter it with LOL's to make it look like I am being condensending, and make myself feel like someone is laughing at my stupidity.............
.......

Some more fo r good measure, so Chris' feelings will get hurt real bad, maybe he'll even cry.

[NeOmega]

uh, ok, but any more games.....

[Chris 62]

HA HA HA HA HA

You really are a loser!

You came here to attack me?

HA HA HA HA HA

[NeOmega]

Yes, and how fun it is watching your powers become nothing here. You have squandered, faltered, and looked a total fool. Look at yourself boy. You better go home to your little kingdom before you cause yourself any more embarrassment.

I came here not to attack, but to be free to fight the likes of you. No threats here, in fact, even better, you flame hard here. You are such a hypocrite.

But hey, you told me flaming causes hard feelings. I don't have any, I am having fun! Are you having fun Chris 62? If not I can stop.

GOD BLESS APOLYTON!

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
Wasn't it you who some months ago posted a photo of a woman (a widowed mother of seven, IIRC) being executed by the Taleban in a football stadium for the "crime" of adultery?

Yes I was. Don't get me wrong. I'm not longing for a return of those monsters. I'm just pointing out that Afganistan was more stable under them, which is something you pointed out also. I'm defeinately not condoning anything they did. I'm glad they are gone.

[Chris 62]

Originally posted by NeOmega
Yes, and how fun it is watching your powers become nothing here.

I'm a poster here, you Imbecile, not a moderator.

You have squandered, faltered, and looked a total fool.

You shouldn't talk about yourself like that, it's not healty.

Look at yourself boy.

Boy...
HA HA HA HA HA

You better go home to your little kingdom before you cause yourself any more embarrassment.

The only embarrisment here is you sonny, and what do you want to bet that you will regret having done this, and it has nothing to do with CFC?

I came here not to attack, but to be free to fight the likes of you.

Your doing a worse job here then your attempts there, you really are somewhat limited intelectually, aern't you.

No threats here, in fact, even better, you flame hard here.

Poly rules for poly days.

You are such a hypocrite.

HA HA HA HA HA
God, you are stupid.
Mark likes his board this way, CFC doesn't.
Hypocrite...HA HA HA HA

But hey, you told me flaming causes hard feelings.

The difference is, I don't care about you, you dense little boy.

I don't have any, I am having fun! Are you having fun Chris 62?

With a lightweight like you?
Your not even a challenge.

If not I can stop.

You can do whatever you want, I can use more laughs, and you sure do provide plenty!

GOD BLESS APOLYTON!

I'm sure Mark and Dan appreciate the sentiment!

[NeOmega]

Originally posted by Chris 62

The only embarrisment here is you sonny, and what do you want to bet that you will regret having done this, and it has nothing to do with CFC?

What did I do? Did I hurt your feelings Chris?

Aha, A threat! I have gotten under your skin. It better not have to do with CFC, be forewarned now. I have connections there too. Like above your head connections. Go ahead and ask him.

[Ming]

NeOmega and Chris62



Enough is enough... If I see EITHER of you attacking each other again... you will get restricted with NO WARNING... NOT ONE MORE WORD OUT OF EITHER OF YOU TOWARD EACH OTHER... YOU GOT THAT!

[Chris 62]

No problem Ming.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Damn, Ming got here first.

I don't do warnings unless I'm in the mood to be nice. I think that happened once in the last six months or so, so I'm not due yet.

[Chris 62]

Reb, I answered your post, before the interuption.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger

Well Mike, carrying a legal punishment is distinctly different from whether a place is safe for the common folk or not.

The question is what is a "legal punishment" - if an armed group comes in and takes over by force, imposese it's will be edict, and then determines who and under what conditions it will kill people, for whatever "offenses," how is that different in substance?

Surely the US carries out its own share of death penalties?

Not for adultery, and we don't beat the **** out of people for not wearing beards, letting women work in their offices, etc. Nor do we prohibit women from being examined by male doctors, and prohibit them from going to school to become doctors.

Maybe you disagree with their laws, but a country with harsh laws is not the same as a lawless country.

Define "country" - I don't define an armed group of fanatics with military control of an arbitrary geographical area as a "country" let alone one with laws.

It's just a different brand of rape, plunder and pillage. Sometimes, the same brand, because Taleban conduct in many cases was indistiguishable from Dostum's thugs.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Chris 62
I think it's REAL important to use IRAQI police as quickly as possible, US military SHOULD not be used to patrol Iraq population centers, only military bases, that's for a start.
Also, try to avoid ANY dudes with strong links to Saddam, it will only cause problems.

I agree with you on local constabulary and police forces.
We have no choice, anyway, since we don't have enough arabic speakers. The problem is in getting those locals to deal effectively with resistance fighters, fanatics, etc.

We make it Crystal clear that they tow the anti-terror line, or they can join Saddam at the bottom of a hole, and that includes the Saudis.

Even the most brutal dictatorships in history have never been able to effectively control all their citizens all the time. Even if you have all the leadership firmly in line, there will be flunkies down the line sympathetic to the other side, and all they have to do is be inept enough that the other guys can operate.

If we get embroiled in Saudi, you can bet your last dollar the **** will hit the fan like we've never seen - infidels controlling the territory surrounding the holy cities?

A military governer at first, followed by a selection of non-Saddam flunkies as possible politians, plus forcing a fair Constiution on Iraq, that would forbid by law anymore strongmen.

Constitutions are only worth the collective desire to abide by them. And we can have guys surfacely friendly to US interests, while making deals for their own short-term survival. Kind of like the way the Saudi royals balance their duties as keepers of the holy cities, lackeys of the US, and plunderers of the natural wealth of the kingdom. Nobody really likes the greedy pigs, but they manage to maneuver and make deals so that every side gets most of what it wants most of the time.

What I said seems to be the idea, but it's important to remember Iraq isn't Afghanistan, it has an easy access to a vast source of funds, and won't require massive US aid the way Afghanistan does.

Three problems - one is that release of that production capacity in a slow global economy will floor the price of oil, causing problems in a lot of other oil producer economies.

Otherwise, you play ball and don't sell as much oil, and your gross revenue goes down, while Iraq still has huge foreign debts (Russia will want theirs paid as a condition of going along through the UN), and reparations due to Kuwait. Plus most of the damage from the Iran-Iraq war was never rebuilt. Iraq will still need a ****load of money to fix it's problems.

On top of that, you have to consider the US cost for the deployment of its forces and equipment on garrison duties - that alone will be a tidy sum every month.

I think we are all sick and tired of being the world's scapegoat by every Leftist and moron with a grevence, this is a big chance to bury that nonsense once and for all.

If we do things right, and make the necessary commitments for the necessary time frame. Considering the long term vision and focus of American politics, I wouldn't bet my life savings. Otherwise, this is also an opportunity for us to **** ourselves silly if it's mishandled.

Also, the UN MUST be kept as FAR AWAY as possible from interfearing, all the ENTIRE process will fall to pieces.

I agree, but US resistance to UN involvement will be used as a propaganda tool by everybody. And precisely because the UN couldn't accomplish anything if it tried, there will be a lot of folks who want the UN to be there.

And the result would be ME's that hate us and commit terror?
We already have plenty.

Most of the ones that hate us only hate us a little, and pretty much pro forma. They can't be motivated to do much about it, because they've got bigger fish to fry, in just going through their daily existence. The Israelis have proven just how effective escalating up with those people is. No end in sight.

Al Qaeda and closely related groups have inflicted maybe 5,000 fatalities, done a few billions in damage, a few tens of billions in indirect damage and costs. On the overall scheme of things, that's pretty minor, and until recently, pretty sporadic. It doesn't take much to fill up a car with homemade dynamite and nails, or a belt. Smaller, more frequent, totally decentralized ops like are common in Israel, directed against Americans all over the world on a continuous basis. As long as you can keep up a supply of fanatics willing to die for your casue, the relative return on investment for these kind of operations is huge.

Look at the investigative resouces being used just on this one sniper in DC, for example. Let alone the investigative resources used in 9/11. Now assume you have 300-400 open investigations (of actual terror acts), more incidents every day, in and out of the US, and you have long term commitments to military occupation, military strikes, domestic security, border control, investigation, and prevention. The manpower drain in the relevant organizations is going to be huge, and so is the cost.

Don't see a lot of downside Reb, in fact, it would mean and end to a decade of useless and hurtful sanctions, and a clear message that we are through playing games.

An end to sanctions would be useful, but I really question whether we are prepared for a decisive engagment with radical Islamic fundamentalism on a global scale.

For too many years politics has become this endless game of lies, with complex rules that allow nations to behave horrobly yet accuse others of causing it, we see this all the time, 80% of the 3rd world blames the US for something.
Fine.

Hell, in 90% of the third world, the US IS guilty of something. They don't hate our asses because they really, truly, secretly want to be just like us.

The only difference really is that the US is the party universally blamed, but far from the only party with its hands covered in blood, dirt and money.

Now we will do something about it, if we have to kill every fundementalist medieval nut to do it, so be it.

Unless we engage in the biggest genocide in history, which we ain't prepared to do, the pool of potential fanatics expands faster than we can kill 'em. Another choice would be a sort of modern crusade, where we go into the mosques and arrest and remove everyone whose message we don't like. That takes a lot of occupation forces and a lot of time, and the harder we push, the harder they'll push back. Who'll break first? Economically, politically? This is an enemy that once you decisively engage, you don't dare back away from.

The downside that I see is that Bush & Co. are really not prepared to follow through to the end, nor are they prepared to run the political risk of either pushing for decisive confrontation, or massive transformational efforts in both nation building and in changing the perception of the US foreign policy towards the Islamic world.

Once you actually get on and ride the tiger, it's a bit late to ask yourself how are you going to get back off without having your ass chomped?