Uncle oSAMa wants you.

[tandeetaylor]

Didn't read whole thread....


That was cute... wish there was a news station anywhere in America that would show it or address the issues that it does.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Sprayber
Exactly what is your definition of safe? That or you dont Remember correctly

Probably safer than an inner city area in a US city.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
The Taliban held 90% of the country. In the areas they held, crime dropped considerably. I'm not saying it's a regime I'd want to live under, but after decades of constant fighting and terrorism the people of Afganistan welcomed the Taliban.

Even now, some folks are longing for the days of stability under the Taliban, which is really sad.

Wasn't it you who some months ago posted a photo of a woman (a widowed mother of seven, IIRC) being executed by the Taleban in a football stadium for the "crime" of adultery? The photo had the ******* standing over her from behind with a Kalashnikov while she sat on the ground hands tied behind her, and it was taken as she was slumping forward after the Kalashnikov round went through the back of her head, exited her face, and impacted the ground, kicking up a nice little dust cloud?

Someone posted it, I thought it was you who did so. It sure as hell was the good ol' "stable" Taleban in action.

[Frankychan]

Um......i think that your percentage is due to the fact that nobody actually reported the crimes being committed. Just because nobody reports the murder of a wife because of "adultery", doesn't mean that no murder took place.

Things like this make me wonder why we haven't taken care of Islamic (heck for that matter RELIGIOUS) fundamentalists sooner.

Down w/the Taliban, Abou Sayyaf, and that one in Indonesia

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Chris 62
"Destabilize the region"...

Favorite media buzz word that means nothing.

What exactly does Iraq control that is stable?

The media is a bunch of whiny chickenchokers, yank, we both know that. Tell me this, though - what kind of government do you think we should install after Hussein's ass is done?

How well would a real democracy go over with our other allies in the region, who are all monarchs with dictatorial control over government and an obscene degree of control over their national wealth and resources? (with few exceptions, those kings and emirs are largely despised by their own people)

If not a democracy, how well would a tokenly democratic (some down the road promise of elections) pro-US strongman go? Replace one dictator with another more friendly to the infidel invader? (whether that's actually the case, or the spin coming out of the mosques doesn't matter in the least)

Have you or anyone else heard any clear concept for what we intend to do in and with a post-Hussein Iraq? Everyone's already trying to wiggle out of the pseudo-commitments to aid and nationbuilding in Afghanistan, which probably needs something like 200 billion over two decades to transform it from a festering ****hole to a semi-functional third world country.

Is the US (let alone the rest of the world) going to really follow through on long-term nation and government institution building, especially in "dune coon" and "camel jockey" countries? How well do you think that will play with US taxpayers in the long run, especially in a recession, and especially with the all too common prejudice in the US against middle easterners in general?

I'd agree with you if your point is that stability anywhere in the ME is pretty ephemeral and illusory, but the US has a hell of a lot more ways to screw up in Iraq after the war than it has ways of doing things right.

[FrostyBoy]

Is this war going to be worse than the gulf war?

[Urban Ranger]

In terms of monetary costs or human lives?

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
Wasn't it you who some months ago posted a photo of a woman (a widowed mother of seven, IIRC) being executed by the Taleban in a football stadium for the "crime" of adultery? The photo had the ******* standing over her from behind with a Kalashnikov while she sat on the ground hands tied behind her, and it was taken as she was slumping forward after the Kalashnikov round went through the back of her head, exited her face, and impacted the ground, kicking up a nice little dust cloud?

Someone posted it, I thought it was you who did so. It sure as hell was the good ol' "stable" Taleban in action.

Well Mike, carrying a legal punishment is distinctly different from whether a place is safe for the common folk or not.

Surely the US carries out its own share of death penalties? Maybe you disagree with their laws, but a country with harsh laws is not the same as a lawless country.

[FrostyBoy]

human lives

[Chris 62]

BTW Mike, that woman was killed for video taping her kids, as I recall, but it was a while ago, I could be wrong.

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat The media is a bunch of whiny chickenchokers, yank, we both know that. Tell me this, though - what kind of government do you think we should install after Hussein's ass is done?

I think it's REAL important to use IRAQI police as quickly as possible, US military SHOULD not be used to patrol Iraq population centers, only military bases, that's for a start.
Also, try to avoid ANY dudes with strong links to Saddam, it will only cause problems.

How well would a real democracy go over with our other allies in the region, who are all monarchs with dictatorial control over government and an obscene degree of control over their national wealth and resources? (with few exceptions, those kings and emirs are largely despised by their own people)

We make it Crystal clear that they tow the anti-terror line, or they can join Saddam at the bottom of a hole, and that includes the Saudis.

If not a democracy, how well would a tokenly democratic (some down the road promise of elections) pro-US strongman go? Replace one dictator with another more friendly to the infidel invader? (whether that's actually the case, or the spin coming out of the mosques doesn't matter in the least)

A military governer at first, followed by a selection of non-Saddam flunkies as possible politians, plus forcing a fair Constiution on Iraq, that would forbid by law anymore strongmen.

Have you or anyone else heard any clear concept for what we intend to do in and with a post-Hussein Iraq? Everyone's already trying to wiggle out of the pseudo-commitments to aid and nationbuilding in Afghanistan, which probably needs something like 200 billion over two decades to transform it from a festering ****hole to a semi-functional third world country.

What I said seems to be the idea, but it's important to remember Iraq isn't Afghanistan, it has an easy access to a vast source of funds, and won't require massive US aid the way Afghanistan does.

Is the US (let alone the rest of the world) going to really follow through on long-term nation and government institution building, especially in "dune coon" and "camel jockey" countries? How well do you think that will play with US taxpayers in the long run, especially in a recession, and especially with the all too common prejudice in the US against middle easterners in general?

I think we are all sick and tired of being the world's scapegoat by every Leftist and moron with a grevence, this is a big chance to bury that nonsense once and for all.
Also, the UN MUST be kept as FAR AWAY as possible from interfearing, all the ENTIRE process will fall to pieces.

I'd agree with you if your point is that stability anywhere in the ME is pretty ephemeral and illusory, but the US has a hell of a lot more ways to screw up in Iraq after the war than it has ways of doing things right.

And the result would be ME's that hate us and commit terror?
We already have plenty.
Don't see a lot of downside Reb, in fact, it would mean and end to a decade of useless and hurtful sanctions, and a clear message that we are through playing games.
For too many years politics has become this endless game of lies, with complex rules that allow nations to behave horrobly yet accuse others of causing it, we see this all the time, 80% of the 3rd world blames the US for something.
Fine.
Now we will do something about it, if we have to kill every fundementalist medieval nut to do it, so be it.

[NeOmega]

Originally posted by Chris 62
I think it's REAL important to use IRAQI police as quickly as possible, US military SHOULD not be used to patrol Iraq population centers, only military bases, that's for a start....

>>>Is this realistic? Look at how the Palestinians are policing themselves. Do you think this will stop asymetrical attacks on U.S. troops. Do you really believe we could trust Iraqi policemen?

....but it's important to remember Iraq isn't Afghanistan, it has an easy access to a vast source of funds, and won't require massive US aid the way Afghanistan does.

>>>You mean it's oil?

I think we are all sick and tired of being the world's scapegoat by every Leftist and moron with a grevence, this is a big chance to bury that nonsense once and for all.

>>>how do you figure this'll shut em up? I think this'll make em howl louder. I know for one I will.

Also, the UN MUST be kept as FAR AWAY as possible from interfearing, all the ENTIRE process will fall to pieces.

>>>Is this a realistic "must". Do you really expect the UN to stay out. I think you kwno better, so by your own prediction, The ENTIRE process will fall to pieces.

Now we will do something about it, if we have to kill every fundementalist medieval nut to do it, so be it.

>>>OOh ooh, can we try and kill every fundamentalist Christian nut too, like John Ashcroft and Jerry Falwell?

[Chris 62]

[SIZE=1] Originally posted by NeOmega [/SIZEIs this realistic? Look at how the Palestinians are policing themselves. Do you think this will stop asymetrical attacks on U.S. troops. Do you really believe we could trust Iraqi policemen?

Is your answer realistic?
Is Palestine a country?
Is Iraq?
Ask me a legit question, or don't waste my time.

You mean it's oil?

No, Camel dung.
What do you think?

how do you figure this'll shut em up? I think this'll make em howl louder. I know for one I will.

Knock yourself out tough guy.

Is this a realistic "must". Do you really expect the UN to stay out. I think you kwno better, so by your own prediction, The ENTIRE process will fall to pieces.

The UN can't do ANYTHING without a resolution.
Who controls a permanent Veto?

OOh ooh, can we try and kill every fundamentalist Christian nut too, like John Ashcroft and Jerry Falwell?

You can do whatever you want, why should I care?
Yours might be the stupidest rebuttal post I ever saw on poly, and I bet you thought long and hard on it too!

[NeOmega]

Originally posted by Chris 62
Is your answer realistic?
Is Palestine a country?
Is Iraq?
Ask me a legit question, or don't waste my time.

I asked you a legit question. I'll just assume you are dumb enough to trust Iraqi policemen to do the bidding of Americans.

No, Camel dung.
What do you think?

Adroit. But this has nothing to do with oil, right? Good god, you walked right into the trap like it was a cong bungee pit. I know your the same guy as the idiot over at CFC who power trips all the time, but geez, Chris 62 must be your stupid alter ego.

The UN can't do ANYTHING without a resolution.
Who controls a permanent Veto?

Russia and France, and they are dead set against this ivasion, yet, they somehow are beginning to warm up and compromise. But you don't think the U.S. would ever compromise do you?

You can do whatever you want, why should I care?
Yours might be the stupidest rebuttal post I ever saw on poly, and I bet you thought long and hard on it too!

Your whole plan for occupation of Iraq was about the stupidist thing I ever read. Those rebuttals took no time at all because they were so easy. Your re-occupation plan is full of obvious holes even to the most amateur of observers. Oh wait..... <- Look! now I am as funny as Chris 62.

[Guest]

I think I have to agree with Chris on this one.
The US is blamed for everything!
So, perhaps it's about time the US took responsibility for it's "faulty foreign policy" and now started to clean up the mess that it is being blamed for.

A good place to start would be to turf out all the M.E. dictatcors and "kings" and replace the lot with constitutional republics - the US constitution is not entirely a bad model to start with and has much to be admired in it.

If that means going in with the Armed Forces, then so be it.

As proof that this strategy would work, you only have to look to the North Iraq no fly zones, where the Kurds are flourishing.

[NeOmega]

Easier said than done. This will no tbe like the

Here is an article written by James Webb, former Assistant Secretary of Defense, and Secretary of the Navy, under Ronald Reagan.

The Washington Post, dated September 4, 2002.

http://www.sftt.org/article09302002a.html

Most interesting are the stark differences between what Japan was in WW II, and what Iraq is today.