It is done...Dutch right wing governement collapses

[Saint Marcus]

you got it

one more interesting thing. De Vries called for a big people's party, uniting GL, SP and PvdA. Interesting, though it will never work.

[germanos]

Originally posted by Saint Marcus
one more interesting thing. De Vries called for a big people's party, uniting GL, SP and PvdA. Interesting, though it will never work.

The three combined have now about the same amount of seats as the PvdA before the last elections.

What a dreamer de Vries is. The people's party (oh the word alone: horrid) will end up the size the PvdA is now.
And didn't the PvdA say GL and SP were unrealistic parties last time?

, if the PvdA wants the support of GL and SP voters, it will have to form a government with them, that is the only way.

Oh, the pathetic state the PvdA is in... Can't they think of anything better?

[Saint Marcus]

it's just De Vries. Van Nieuwenhoven doesn't agree with it. Not sure about Bos.

Who do you think will be best, or the most likely, party leader for the PvdA?

[germanos]

I don't know. In fact I never know with the PvdA. I guess that is why I have never conciderd voting for them. Somehow their leaders are allways weenies.

I guess van Nieuwenhoven would be better, since she seems at least the type that makes choices, and is not happy with just being a politician, but wants to make policies as well.

It is such a pity though she has this whining voice, everytime I hear her on the radio, cold shivers go up my spine. I'm afraid more voters could have the same feelings...

[Saint Marcus]

on the plus side, she'd be the only female party head, that may attract many women voters.

[Robert]

So it would be a good thing if they got in the governement, not? They'd mellow down, and you'd get more respect for them

After that there won't be much left over anymore.
Their strength is their opinion, their spirit. Their pacifism, their green adoration, that's what the party runs on. They are an empty party without that. Their voters will cast away from them. All I have Rosenmuller heard saying was that the social and green departments should get more cash.

As if more cash will solve all problems.

Most dutch politicians, and citizens, think very highly of Rosenmuller and praise him for his political experience and debating skills.

Pherhaps his political experience. But his debating skills aren't based in knowledge, but morely in a very good vocal capabilty.

CU, Christen Unie (Christian Union). Fusion of two small Christian parties. For fundies they are kind of liberal but only just.

CU is like the Republicans. In the netherlands that's concidered to be fundamentalistic. That's just because we're a very leftish country.

CU is concidered to be a more green party than groen-links, and as 'social' as a mix between the PvdA and SP.

Most dutch people don't know much about CU, as you can see in this description above.

No, I don't vote CU, I know much people who do though. I tell them all the time to vote CDA though.

SGP, S...?? Gereformeerde Partij

Staatkundig Gereformeerde Partij.
indeed fundies. Oldest dutch democratic party though
Eventhough it's members have strange ideas, they are very respected for their wisdom and political experience. Their opinion is listened to but ignored.

Eventhough I disagree most of the time with them, I think they do not deserve the disrespect everybody has to them. They will never hurt anybody. It's just unfortunately that they never understood the bible

Don't get me wrong, I like the SP a lot. the only reason why I'm voting for Groenlinks is cause they have a shot at getting the governement, the SP never will (unless they change course).

Neither will GL.
Their green ideals and their pacifistic ideals will never make it into any governament. (CDA and GL do not match, PvdA and GL will never get a majority. Neither will PvdA, SP and GL.)

I think a PvdA, CDA, SP coalition will have a larger change.

CyberShy: you still didn't explain why the greens are liars...

I suspect you don't read "Elsevier"
Their article "The green liars" sums it all pretty up.
Green energy is a joke, wind energy is not a possibility, all of The Netherlands should be filled with wind mills only to provide a part of us with energy.

Their opinion on the 'ozon laag' has shaked up the entire world. Now we know that it's gape is a natural phenomenon.

Remember the "Brent Spar"?

What about their lie that 'the entire country will be filled with highways soon"?
About 0,05% of the dutch landscape contains highways.
More highways will reduces 'files' which will be much better for the environment.

What about the uncertainly about the Kyoto pact?
Nobody is sure the climate is going to be changed. Still the green-lobby presses the EU governaments to trow billions and billions into a gape that never might be proven to be right.

What about a-democratic people who run into the 2e kamer (2nd room of our governament)
We have a democracy, the people vote for the governament. If such a governament does not contain a minister for environmental issues (but a secretary of state) there is NO EXCUSE to break the democraty to 'create your own minister' who is not chosen.

What about nuclear reactors?
Nuclear reactors are the best replacements for old engergy plants. It's better for the environment, and if you take care of them the right way, they are save.
There are problems with their 'garbage' but a 'shoot it into the sun' solution might be affordable within years.

just a few common known issues why the greens are liars.

[Robert]

I'm going to play the devils advocate for the SGP.
These are issues that are common and well accepted in the majority of the world. (not even counting moslim-nations)

no more gay marriage
no more adoption for gay couples
prostitution made illegal
euthanasia made illegal
cloning forbidden
softdrugs made illegal
closing of all "coffeeshops"

These are issues that aren't that silly,
eventhough you might disagree with it.

pornography made illegal

Issues that are just a change of opinion (which won't make anybody fundamentalist. In a democraty you have the right to have different opinions. don't promote your opinion to be the default one!!)

abortion forbidden
test on the option of abortion forbidden
closing of all casinos
gambling made illegal

Left over the fundamentalistic ideas:

shops closed on sundays
people visiting hookers should be prosecuted
IVF made illegal
Palestinian people a direct threat to the Israeli state

BUT the only reason why they are fundamentalists is their 'article 34' idea, which says that the governament should spread the christian faith (read: THEIR christian faith) with the sword and with fire.

They don't understand the christian faith.
It shouldn't be forced through anybodies throat. It's a matter of believing. And yes, they have strange ideas besides that, but that's ok with me, but as long as they won't harm anyone only.

Thought I should clear that up

[Robert]

or is Cybershy banned after his recent threads in the Community forum?

No, I was not at home this weekend.

I do have some principles, mind you

So does the CDA! They have much principles!

I know. Women aren't allowed in the party, and watching TV is evil. For some reason, the internet isn't.

Internet is in some way. They have RDNet, which is an internet version that only contains pages that are MANUALLY accepted by the administrators!

[Hueij]

CU is concidered to be a more green party than groen-links, and as 'social' as a mix between the PvdA and SP.

Most dutch people don't know much about CU, as you can see in this description above.

Don't know if I should take this as an insult but since it comes from someone who votes CDA I'll let it slip...

Mix...?? Care to tell this dumb green leftie what the CU stances are on homosexuality and gay marriage, legal prostitution, legalising soft drugs, euthanasia etc usw...? Since ,according to you, I obviously don't know much about the CU, please enlighten me...

[Lemmy]

no more gay marriage
no more adoption for gay couples
prostitution made illegal
euthanasia made illegal
cloning forbidden
softdrugs made illegal
closing of all "coffeeshops"

They basically want to take away everything that makes the Netherlands unique and famous. And except for some moral issues people could have, i see no problem in leaving things as they are.

[Saint Marcus]

So does the CDA! They have much principles!

one election they'll go right, the other they go left, whatever gets them in power. Principles my ass.

[Hueij]

Originally posted by Lemmy

no more gay marriage
no more adoption for gay couples
prostitution made illegal
euthanasia made illegal
cloning forbidden
softdrugs made illegal
closing of all "coffeeshops"

They basically want to take away everything that makes the Netherlands unique and famous. And except for some moral issues people could have, i see no problem in leaving things as they are.

Nah, it's all part of the "Norms and Values" program. Back to the fifties, when everyone knew his place and went to church every sunday! I's about time those fundies force us to live by their values. Cyber, go for it!

[Saint Marcus]

I suspect you don't read "Elsevier"
Their article "The green liars" sums it all pretty up.

Elsevier

I suspect you don't read "Time"
Their article "Green Century" sums it all pretty up.

[germanos]

Originally posted by CyberShy

CU is like the Republicans. In the netherlands that's concidered to be fundamentalistic. That's just because we're a very leftish country.

No they are not: they are Monarchists.

CU is concidered to be a more green party than groen-links, and as 'social' as a mix between the PvdA and SP.

They are slowly moving in a more moderate direction, but will move extremist again now that Kars Veling has to go.

SGP, S...?? Gereformeerde Partij

Staatkundig Gereformeerde Partij.
indeed fundies. Oldest dutch democratic party though
Eventhough it's members have strange ideas, they are very respected for their wisdom and political experience. Their opinion is listened to but ignored.

Very respected indeed if nobody listens to them.

It's just unfortunately that they never understood the bible

Good argument

What about nuclear reactors?
Nuclear reactors are the best replacements for old engergy plants. It's better for the environment, and if you take care of them the right way, they are save.
There are problems with their 'garbage' but a 'shoot it into the sun' solution might be affordable within years.

Yep, no prrrolbemmmm. We'll solve it all in the future: what are those greens whining about.

You seem to be the guy that beleives in 'Rentmeesterschap' in the biblical sence. Would you care to explain how this ads up?

I can't be bothered to reply to your crap involving your advocature of the SGP (maybe later ), but I have one question though: why should we leave out the islamic world when determining 'the common sence' of the SGP views? Could that be because you find some of them (views) fundamentalists if they would be brought forward by muslims?

[Robert]

but I have one question though: why should we leave out the islamic world when determining 'the common sence' of the SGP views? Could that be because you find some of them (views) fundamentalists if they would be brought forward by muslims?

No, but I know much of you would.
But I don't shy away to compare the SGP with islamitic governaments. But I can't compare them with violent islamitic people.

more to come tomorrow.