The ivory tower intellectual vs the man on the street

[Capt Dizle]

A representative democracy is the way to go but there is too much distance between the common man and national offices. Therefore money, much of it corporate, determines elections through the use of advertising.

This is why we see so many incumbants win over and over. And this sets up the lobby/pocket politician loop.

The masses should hold the power but although everyone can vote they have little power, nor does the intellectual elite.

Corporations essentially rule the America. There is essentially no chance of a third party gaining a national voice.

[Frankychan]

I'd have to say a combination of both. Sometimes 'the masses' produce ludicrous idea's that think are feasible. The 'Intellectuals" (from my own experience) seem to be too detachted from reality. They may have all these theories, but they (the brainiacs) don't seem to have the common knowledge of practicality.

So, I'd say a council of elected intellectuals as well as blue-collar workers....with some white-collars thrown in as well..

[Frankychan]

Laws are made to benefit those in power. It doesn't matter if you live in Tajikistan, PRC, Taiwan or America.

Like jimmy says, corporations rule America and they are the policy makers.....but times do change.

[David Floyd]

I think that mandatory service has its good points

And maybe if someone doesn't want to serve in the military or peace corps, it would be OK to force them to work out in the fields.

Oh, but wait. We used to have a system in which people were forced to work out in the fields. It was called....oh yeah, slavery

As to the masses holding the power, I don't think so. The masses are in general stupid, and not only stupid but selfish and greedy. They are not likely to recognize the concept of self-evident natural rights, and will act to rob people under the aegis of "equalizing income and resources".

The best system is a type of representative democracy, governed by a Constitution as the supreme law of the land. It would be possible to change certain aspects of that Constitution - mainly procedural aspects and the like - but utterly impossible to amend it in such a way that a person's natural liberty could ever be taken away (with the obvious sole exception of that person engaging in criminal activity, which is defined as depriving or attempting to deprive another of their natural rights).

[Ramo]

There should be absolutely no restrictions for adults to vote.

What about stuff like equal rights for blacks? Did the masses support that?

Blacks were disenfranchised and marginalized in the American South through literacy tests. If there weren't any literacy tests, the civil rights situation prior to their dismantlement likely would've been far better.

[- Groucho -]

Dum dum dee dee duuummmm!

Baldface-assertion-man, to the rescue!

What's this? A theoretical question on democracy!?! There won't be any of that while I'm on patrol!

Take that!

Originally posted by jimmytrick
Corporations essentially rule the America.

And THAT!

Originally posted by jimmytrick
There is essentially no chance of a third party gaining a national voice.

My work here is done! -swoosh-

[Ned]

Originally posted by monkspider
-Ned
The idea is horrible, it refuses the vote to dissident individuals who refuse to serve in any way.

How would one distinguish between one who "refused" to serve in a voluntary organization with those who preferred to do something else, but only for themselves?

Of course, I would provide for exceptions based upon incapacity.

But I could see civilian service to be in a variety of needed public services, such as for example, service in the Red Cross, Peace Corps, or some sort of Big Brother or Sister programs that would tutor the poorer performing students, or provide meals on wheels to the ederly. I could go on and on. All of us could.

[David Floyd]

I could go on and on about the immorality of such a system, but there's no need to. Deep down, you know slavery is wrong.

[Tuberski]

Doctors, lawyers, people that provide important services to the community. Flipping burgers at McDonalds would not qualify.

[Drake Tungsten]

I could go on and on about the immorality of such a system, but there's no need to. Deep down, you know slavery is wrong.

A little service would do you some good. Maybe you would learn to think about people besides yourself...

[Capt Dizle]

Originally posted by David Floyd


As to the masses holding the power, I don't think so. The masses are in general stupid, and not only stupid but selfish and greedy. They are not likely to recognize the concept of self-evident natural rights, and will act to rob people under the aegis of "equalizing income and resources".

David, you obviously do not consider yourself one of the masses.

Look, the elite have robbed the masses under the aegis of "capitalism and evident natural rights" since the inception of this country. They have even made up evident nautral rights out of whole cloth..like manifest destiny. How can you call the masses greedy and selfish without pointing that relatively speaking, they are much less so that the elite. And as for the stupidity part, thats what the Brittish said about the ignorant masses of American colonialists.

[Capt Dizle]

One recurring theme I hear at Poly is the thinking that education equals intelligence and lack of education equals stupidity. This is such a clear and self evident falsehood that I am constantly shocked that it is so prevelant on a internet site that has so many intelligent student posters. I can only credit youthful ignorance and intellectual snobbery.

[David Floyd]

Drake,

A little service would do you some good. Maybe you would learn to think about people besides yourself...

Fair enough, but if anyone forces me into some sort of service, that is slavery.

jt,

David, you obviously do not consider yourself one of the masses.

I suppose not in the way I am using the term.

Look, the elite have robbed the masses under the aegis of "capitalism and evident natural rights" since the inception of this country.

Wrong. Exercising your natural rights - which never extend to violating those of others - is not robbery. If one person happens to do better than another, such is the system.

They have even made up evident nautral rights out of whole cloth..like manifest destiny.

Yes, in lots of ways the "elites" have been just as bad as the "masses". Your point?

can you call the masses greedy and selfish without pointing that relatively speaking, they are much less so that the elite.

I suppose that lots of people are greedy. That does not mean, though, that you are greedy for wanting to hold on to your property.

One recurring theme I hear at Poly is the thinking that education equals intelligence and lack of education equals stupidity.

A better word might be ignorance....but in any case, I largely agree with you. There are lots of educated people who I would not want to see running things.

[Frankychan]

It's when the ignorance is so permeated into a person's beliefs, that's when education=intelligence.

[David Floyd]

Actually, I think my point is this: No one person or group can be trusted to run things in a manner consistent with freedom. Therefore, a representative democracy elected by the people as a whole is needed, which itself is subject to a Constitution which in many ways cannot be changed.