Bullfighting

[Giancarlo]

Loincrap, other people from my country can disagree with my opinion. That is why we have political parties like the PSOE (which I hate) and the PP (which I support).

[Drake Tungsten]

I think Fez is actually making me dumber... (sigh)

[Boris Godunov]

I hereby patent a new term.

The Fez Effect

The phenomenon when a previously or potentially rational discussion is sunk by the abject stupidity of a single obtuse poster.

[MichaeltheGreat]

And here I thought all the time that Giancarlo was making the big point about how he was an American who was going to run for President or some such delusion.

Did he become a Spaniard when he changed names to Fez, or what's the deal?

All the drama gets soooooo confusing when you've been away for a while.

Oh, and bullfighting is a ***** "sport." Small bulls, lots of bullfighters to confuse them, places in the bull ring to duck out of the way.

Get a real, live, serious Grade-A American bullriding bull from the rodeo circuit, and one bullfighter only. No place to hide. Then you can make it a sport.

The bulls I've seen (channel flipping on TV, both in Mexico and Spain) look like they're drugged or something - they sure as hell have limited endurance.

[Kramsib]

Yaros, there is no sense in putting Lidia Bulls in Zoos or Reserves, because then they would be financed with money from the government (our money from the taxes), THEY ARE PROFITABLE IN THE BULLRINGS, THEY EVEN PRODUCE SUPERAVIT so WHY???

- Give me another profitable activity for the bulls and then ban bullfighting. (If you think a zoo is profitable, give me proofs ok )

Or:

- Convince everyone about the bad morality of hurting animals so the whole society will ban bullfighting.

Hey Yaros, sigo de buen rollito

[TheStinger]

Its Barbaric and saying its your culture is a crap reason to keep something.

It use to be English culture to burn suspecetd witches but we stopped.

[Kramsib]

I don't think there is any cruelty against the bull in the bullring because the bull can defend itself. In fact, the bull doesn't seem indefensive (you guys wouldn't have "balls" to put yourselfs in front of such an animal). Of course it is a pitty that some bullfightings have been cheated, that makes me angry .

I think ecologists should focus their efforts on keeping the equilibrium in the nature more than trying to ban ancient traditions.

[TheStinger]

Originally posted by Kramsib
I don't think there is any cruelty against the bull in the bullring because the bull can defend itself. In fact, the bull doesn't seem indefensive (you guys wouldn't have "balls" to put yourselfs in front of such an animal). Of course it is a pitty that some bullfightings have been cheated, that makes me angry .

I think ecologists should focus their efforts on keeping the equilibrium in the nature more than trying to ban ancient traditions.

Oh yeah sticking spears in an animal isn't cruel.
WTF has being brave/stupid enough to go into a ring with a bull got to do with this

[Kramsib]

Originally posted by TheStinger
Its Barbaric and saying its your culture is a crap reason to keep something.

It use to be English culture to burn suspecetd witches but we stopped.

Of course you stopped, when there were no witches left to burn

But that is not an English tradition only, whole Europe had fun burning witches.

What do you think about the case of English foxes? I think you had an interesting riot about it these days?.

[Kramsib]

Originally posted by TheStinger
Oh yeah sticking spears in an animal isn't cruel.

Think about it as a funny pearcing for a bull. . Oh, don't be silly, there is much more cruelty in those old women dressing and "hairing" their ridiculous dogs

I have never seen a bull shouting, or crying because of the spears, even when they are being sticked with the big one (The pike) the bull push with more strength against The Pikemen ("El Picador").

[Kramsib]

Comparing the hooks of the spears with the whole bull is to compare the sticking of a "mosquito".

[Kramsib]

Originally posted by TheStinger
WTF has being brave/stupid enough to go into a ring with a bull got to do with this

Of course, you , who don't know anything about bulls is a stupidity to go into a ring with a bull. Whereas it is bravery for a Torero. Olé, olé.

You guys seem to be unable to see the art of bullfighting, the same happens to surrealist pictures, those who don't understand anything cannot say if it is art or a ****.

[Boris Godunov]

1) Breeding an animal for the sole use of killing it in a bullring is probably even more repugnant than just capturing one and killing it. It is morally unethical. If this breed of bull is not needed for any other use, then it can be allowed to naturally die out by stopping bull fights and letting the remaining animals live out their days in capitivity until they die.

2) Saying it isn't cruel or tortuous because you can't see bull tears is ludicrous. Comparing being speared to mosquito bites is also silly, as we can clearly see the bull bleeding. It's response to the cruelty is to fight back at those attacking it, which is certainly natural.

3) The bull is relatively defenseless compared to the bullfighters. The bull is alone in a ring surrounded by thousands of people with no egress. The bullfighters can run away whenver they want. They then gang up on the bull, first stabbing at it and weakening it, until the Torero shows up to put on his fancy show (at which point the bull is weakened enough that it's really not all that much of a challenge). Then they kill the thing.

I guarantee you that if we put you in the bull's place, you'd consider it torture, both physical and psychological.

I don't see much sport in it, as the odds against the bull are pretty much 10,000:1. It's just an organized spectacle of cruelty, only marginally better than the Romans feeding Christians to the lions.

[des-esseintes]

they should ban it right away. whaling is banned for christs sake!

[Kramsib]

At least a good reasoning from Boris godunov.

What is moral? Too complicated philosophic discussion about morality, even morality has changed through ages.

What about those cows which spent all their lives being breed to die for giving us meat living in a tiny room? CLAUSTROPHOBIC TORTURE, What about those hens which have their "turns" alterated to produce more eggs? METHABOLIST MANIPULATION

(note: many farmers use artificial lights to substitute the light of the sun so they can manipulate the natural metabolism of the hens which is regulated by the day-night cycles, they turn on the light twice a day to duplicate the production, I hope you understand my poor explanation).

Human beings make terrible things against animals to keep our lifestyles "****ting" on moral values. Don't make me laugh !.

The aim of "Banderillas" is to "tease" the bull, their hooks are only to fix on the top of the bull. The pike is to make the bull bleed and rest energy to the bull.

These are the real facts, you think they are cruel. Well, I know, I think they are unnecesary, I prefer the lonely fight between the bull and the Torero. The pike is painfull but I think the bull doesn't feel the Banderillas no more than the time when they are stuck. It is a big and a strong animal, remember that.

But the definitive reasoning is, if there is no bullfighting the specie Lidia Bull will dissapear irremediably.

I repeat, if you don't believe me look for what happened to the donkeys everywhere.

What is more cruel, the killing of some animals or the dissapearing of the whole specie?

And then who would be the worst murderers?