Bullfighting

[Kramsib]

PART ONE.

Attention: This is a long post from Kramsib, if you want a little extract go to the last lines, if you want to read all, .... at your own risk

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Ok, ok, so let's criticise a Spanish custom. I am very sad about so much ignorance, but, it doesn't matter, I am not a wise man.

First and foremost, bullfighting is a tradition in Spain, as a good Christian country during centuries, bull-fighting represents the fight between "The Demon", "The beast", this is to say, the bull, and "the Human Being".

Of course, there weren't ecologists in the Middle Ages (Thank God), so everybody agree that was a beautiful spectacle. In the beginning it was reserved only for noblety but they started to become gay, so their servants substituted them.

You guys, you haven't see the art when the bull literally dances with the Bullfighter (I will use Torero from now), this is the dance of death.

Perhaps you see a little animal a pacific bull which has been on the grasslands peacefully, but this is not true. This is a special race of bulls, Lidia Bulls are not like the rest, they are useless to produce meat because of their bad quality (full of nerves and very hard meat) and the low quantity compared with the rest of the bulls (on the other hand, the meat of bullfighted bulls is used to prepare meals, so nothing is wasted).

They are wild animals which has been grown up in the open air only for one aim, "The Bullring". They are aggressive, 300 kilos weigh, killing-machines, that is their instinct, and they are armed with 30 cm. or longer horns as sharp as swords. No, they are not Charity Nuns.

I laughted a lot when some Polish ecologists tried to stop a bullfighting by seating in the middle of the bullring in Poland, and the bull, which doesn't regognise friends from enemies started to beat them. What stupid ones !!!.

Ok, the bull suffers when the sword and the spears hit it, but it is not affraid, it is a brave bull which is waiting for its chance to kill. So forget about the figure of an indefense animal.

To be continued...

[Kramsib]

PART TWO

Another reasoning, is economy and ecology. It is a fact that the Lidia bulls race exists due to the existance of bullfighting, if there wasn't bullfighting there wouldn't be Lidia Bulls. That is because bullfighting is a business which make these bulls profitable. Keeping these bulls alive has costs which has been automatically covered thanks to this business, perhaps you guys are interested in protecting these animals by giving your money to maintain them. Let me see how much strength have your words. We are talking about the extinction of a whole bull race and this is serious (if you don't believe me look for what happened to donkeys, wherever).

But I am also against current bullfighting because of the cheating. Bulls are "shaved" ("afeitados"), they get their horns enshorten (and sharpen again to cover the cheat). The aim of this cheat is to prevent bulls from calculating the real distances so they mistake triying to hit the Torero. That is because Toreros are nearly as reach as football players and, as far as this capitalist world is concerned, they are rich so they must live more.

If my memory is ok, no bullfighters have died since Paquirri did in the early 80's.

Anoder annoying point is that like in football, you have to see a lot of bad bullfightings to see a good one (to see the art I talked before).
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To sum up.

- If it hurts your sensibility don't look but don't censure us.
- Lidia Bulls are only profitable for bullfighting, if bullfighting is forbidden Lidia Bulls are condemned to extinction and many families and workers to the dull (unemployment).

On the other hand

- Bullfighting is becoming a dirty business full fo cheating and is losing the art which make it beautiful.

[loinburger]

Originally posted by Fez
I am from a different country and have come to my conclusions that this is a perfectly sound sport.

How did you come to these conclusions, though? What thought process did you go through?

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by loinburger


How did you come to these conclusions, though? What thought process did you go through?

Through my own analysis.

[yaroslav]

Kramsib, te contesto en español porque no quiero ofenderte (¡¡eres mi amigo!!), y menos discutir contigo delante de todos estos amables guiris, pero a mi me parece que no esta bien obtener espectaculo del sufrimiento...

[Kramsib]

Excuse me, English Speakers but I want to answer my friend in Spanish too.

Eso estarÃa muy bien que te oyese la Ana Rosa Quintana y todas esas perras de los Reality Show que estrujan el sufrimiento humano en pos de su beneficio (y encima hacen labor social, cuidado) .

Yaros, (tranquilo no estoy cabreado, ni me lo tomo a mal, discrepamos eso es todo) en el caso de los toros de lidia creo que pesa mucho más la posibilidad de la extinción de toda una especie animal. Encuéntrame una actividad que los toros de lidia puedan desarrollar que permita su autogestión y luego hablemos de acabar con las corridas de toros. (En este caso el sufrimiento de los toros hace labor social, mantiene los trabajos de mucha gente).

Perhaps one thing can be true, and everybody can agree, the same for the bulls and the british foxes.

Convince the people first, and then let the whole society to ban or change their customs and traditions, but don't try to forbid them so soon because it creates a lot of conflict.

[Giancarlo]

Convincing me is like stopping a bullet train with a rope.

[yaroslav]

Originally posted by Kramsib
Excuse me, English Speakers but I want to answer my friend in Spanish too.

Eso estarÃa muy bien que te oyese la Ana Rosa Quintana y todas esas perras de los Reality Show que estrujan el sufrimiento humano en pos de su beneficio (y encima hacen labor social, cuidado) .

Yaros, (tranquilo no estoy cabreado, ni me lo tomo a mal, discrepamos eso es todo) en el caso de los toros de lidia creo que pesa mucho más la posibilidad de la extinción de toda una especie animal. Encuéntrame una actividad que los toros de lidia puedan desarrollar que permita su autogestión y luego hablemos de acabar con las corridas de toros. (En este caso el sufrimiento de los toros hace labor social, mantiene los trabajos de mucha gente).

Tus argumentos son que 1) dan trabajo 2) el toro se extinguira si no fuera asi.

1) Bueno, no digo que se prohiba ahora, pero si con el tiempo y con una reconversion ¿crees que eso es obstaculo?

2) Pues ¿Para que estan los zoologicos y las reservas?

[yaroslav]

Bueno, Kramsib, me voy a acostar. Te repito que no he pretendido ofenderte, y no te creas que soy un fanatico ni nada por el estilo. Es simplemente, que no lo entiendo. Sera por mis origenes extranjeros

[loinburger]

Originally posted by Fez
Through my own analysis.

Okay, can you please enlighten us with some kind of justification, rather than continuing to make unsubstantiated claims? For example, "through my own analysis" is exceedingly vague. What specific evidence or revelation caused you to draw your conclusions?

[Giancarlo]

I have drawn up my conclusions from the facts in question. (Meaning I am trying to evade questions here...)

[loinburger]

In other words, you are the holder of yet another unjustified (i.e. worthless) opinion.

[Giancarlo]

My opinion is not worthless. Just justified by culture. Shall I say more?

[loinburger]

It apparently hasn't occurred to you that the fact that yaroslav, one of your countrymen, disagrees with your opinion renders null and void your already dubious "I'm from a different country so there" justification.

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by Fez
My opinion is not worthless. Just justified by culture. Shall I say more?

Well, the death penalty is justified by my cultre in the exact same way.....