The New Romans. Guess who...

[Ned]

Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin
You really consider Norse, Celtic and Germanic cultures - major constituents of early English/Welsh culture - to be nothing but rape and pillage?

Thats what you appear to be saying.

Yes and no. The Germans who conquered the Roman empire were little more than armed savages who were there in the Empire for one reason, rape and pillage.

The Welsh were British and probably retained a great deal of their past civilization. Asser could write fairly well for example.

By the time of Alfred, the Germans of the Continent and Britain had become Christian. So had the Irish. This brought a measure of advanced Roman culture to the barbarian, but reading and writing were still confined to the monasteries.

The Vikings are renowed for their savagery. I don't think you can call their culture anything else but the culture of conquest, rape and pillage like the Germans before them.

These are my views. What are yours?

[Dauphin]

I think that to dismiss the Viking as a band of rapists and plunderers is narrow-minded. They came up with their own mythology (Thor, Valhalla etc) and sagas* which is a sign of cultural development.

*Beowulf (although not Viking) is a good source for cultural analysis of Germanic culture.

[Ned]

Well, I grant you that the Vikings did have some culture other than conquest, rape and pillage. But on the whole, the latter predominated for a very long time.

[KrazyHorse]

Not to mention that the Danelaw was the freest and most individualist (both usually considered the quintessential British traits in comparison to Continent) part of England for most of its existence.

[Odin]

I think the US's Golden age was from 1945 (end of WWII) to 1963 (start of Vietnam War). After Vietnam people wern't as afraid of the US because there was no "America is invicible" crap anymore, and the liberal attitude of the 60's and 70's got rid of the US's "Maifest Destiny" mindset. Now I think the US is starting to suffer from economic overexpansion (.COM Bust in 2000)and coruption economically (Enron, MCI-Worldcom, etc.) as well as politically (2000 election debacle and "Soft Money"), just like whenn Rome became corrupt politically in the 300's. I think the EU and China will surpass the US in economic and millitary power by 2030. Liberals will overthrow the US constitution by 2040 and reform the government. The EU and China will become the next world superpowers.

[Dr Strangelove]

All of this talk about American imperialism is a bunch of hooie.

We have troops in many nations around the world, but they're their at the request of the locals. All you euros have to say is "leave" and we'll be outta there.
That's not the way empires operate. Remember when the Jews tried to request the evacuation of Roman troops in 70 AD? Who wound up leaving?

Likewise our multinational corporations market their wares in your countries only as long as their products continue to sell. If they couldn't make a profit they'd cut their losses and run.
Empires wouldn't do things that way. Remember how the British reacted to uppity colonists challenging their government inflicted monopolies?

The same goes with our so-called cultural influence. No one has to listen to American music or watch American movies. You can choose to exclusively listen to or watch whatever you want to.
An empire would not allow that. Take the Soviet Union for instance.

[Dauphin]

I agree with to an extent Doc.

On cultural issues, if you don't like something I agree you won't do it. But if you are inundated with US products, you are likely to react out of annoyance, like France, or have your culture insidiously taken over.

On military issues, I think political pressures are brought to bear such that American facilities are there due to the Americans wanting them to be there. If Germany point blank demanded all US forces be withdrawn from their country then the US would react in some way.

Regards corporations, I'm sure you'll agree that consumer power is not enough to prevent the presence of corporation. US companies have a strong supplier positions and can outcompete domestic companies due to their size.

Not saying these are bad things, per se, just the US using its strong position to force its views/wares/culture.

[Roland]

"All you euros have to say is "leave" and we'll be outta there. That's not the way empires operate. Remember when the Jews tried to request the evacuation of Roman troops in 70 AD? Who wound up leaving?"

Well if we said "leave" the US would try to pressure us out of the idea, but you are right as the US can't really do anything about it.

However what's the story with that base in Puerto Rico ? And Guantanamo ? And any 3rd world country where the government can be quite easily overthrown ?

"Likewise our multinational corporations market their wares in your countries only as long as their products continue to sell."

True. Also the US is importing 500 billion $ more in goods than it exports every year. Americans are getting japanized and germanized (at least when it comes to cars).

But again the US has tried extorting favours for its well-connected companies. This doesn't work as well as it used to as the EU is big enough on trade issues that the Washington boys finally understood that we can hurt you as much as you can hurt us.

Maybe it's best to describe the US as an Amateur Empire.

[Ned]

I can see it all now. Schroeder freezes diplomatic relations. Then he demands that we withdraw our troops. Then he begins developing nuclear weapons....

The US, UK and Russia confer....

[Roland]

Helms demanded a troop withdrawal.

Never thought I'd agree with that nutbag.

[Ned]

Well Roland, I am going to install a picture of Schroeder on my toilet so I can show him what I think of him.

[Roland]

If you bother that much, fine.

[Colonâ„¢]

[SIZE=1] "Likewise our multinational corporations market their wares in your countries only as long as their products continue to sell."

True. Also the US is importing 500 billion $ more in goods than it exports every year. Americans are getting japanized and germanized (at least when it comes to cars).

In the words of DanS, "the Brits are taking over the US!" (about CVS Pharmacy, a British 24/7 grocery chain)

[des-esseintes]

Nice and entertaining article.

I guess the Cold War is an analogy for the Phoenician Wars against Carthage

but 9/11? That was a silly comparison. 9/11 was The Burning Of Rome, or at least we are very close to TBOR. Dubya is either Nero or Calligula (sp?).

Rise or decline, though? If Bush = Nero, the empire has some great days ahead. the Bush Regime will only be a minor setback for the nation, just like nero's rule.

[Traianvs]

it's 11/9

btw Nero wasn't always that bad, in the beginning he was a good emperor... and we can't say Bush ever did something good

(btw not only Nero did some really ****ty things as an emperor you know, the other fellows weren't really 'nice chaps' as well ...it only depends from whose view you're looking)