The New Romans. Guess who...

[Dauphin]

My point is that Roman facets of Britain are not due to historical continuation of Roman tradition, but due to reintroduction of ideas. Introducing Roman ideas is different to being Roman.

In terms of religion England is more akin to the Germanic (or more generally Northern European) states, which were never Romanised in the first instance.

In terms of culture, explain how England is Roman, so that I may agree or disagree.

[Bereta_Eder]

English are more french (gallic) than they care to admit it really

[alofatti]

From Arrian

I don't really buy the whole cultural/economic imperialism argument. Starbucks, McDonalds, etc. are not run by the US government. That just doesn't compare with Roman rule.

Perhaps the Empire here is not really the US but rather the corporate system that is now currently ruling the world and, in a way, the US is its paladin.

[Adalbertus]

paiktis, the French and theGallic influence on England are very different things. The Gallic is more found in everything British that is not English. The French is due to a Germanic tribe called the Normans. It might be more difficult to distinguish Gallic and Germanic things from "Before French/Normannic" and "French/Normannic" influcences - I don't know to which extent the Germanic and Gallic populations influenced each other in Britain before 1066, but in Germany there is a mixing over very large areas (mainly south and west) - even if you might suspect that one village is more celtic than the other. (My father suspects he lives now in a "celtic" village - the inhabitants don't feel less German than those of neighbouring villages).

[Ned]

SD, The King was Alfred the Great. As a youth, he visited Rome. As King, he encouraged education, brought scholars from the continent, and transalated certain works into Saxon. Here is a quote from Encarta.

"Alfred was a patron of learning and did much for the education of his people. He began a court school and invited British and foreign scholars, notably the Welsh monk Asser and the Irish-born philosopher and theologian John Scotus Erigena, to come there. Alfred translated such works as The Consolation of Philosophy by the Roman statesman and philosopher Boethius, The History of the World by the Spanish priest Paulus Orosius, and Pastoral Care by Pope Gregory I. Alfred's laws, the first promulgated in more than a century, were the first that made no distinction between the English and the Welsh peoples."

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Ned


Frogger, If you compare the demoralized America of the '70s with today's America, you will see that we are infinitely more powerful and confident than then. Our Amry of Vietnam had become a joke - and officer-shooting, pot-smoking, ill-disciplined rabble. We are definitely not in decline.

Hah. The foolhardy may always be taken in by modern-day Potemkin villages. You're lucky the US has pols that look at more than how you fare in brushfire conflicts to judge your strength. Immediately prior to the Viet Nam war was when the US was at its highest relative strength.

I have to remember that I'm arguing with a man living in a fantasy world (and a mathematicall inconsistent one at that)...

[Ned]

Originally posted by Frogger


Immediately prior to the Viet Nam war was when the US was at its highest relative strength.

Just prior to the Viet Nam war, the Russians were ahead of us in missles and in the space race, and had a much larger army. The Chinese had a larger army as well.

We had a larger navy and bomber force.

At that time, the Russians overran Hungary and shipped missles to Cuba; and the German communist puppet government built the Berlin wall.

Our economy was about double that of Russia, but they were closing the gap.

I think were at rough parity with the communist block then. Today, no nation or combination that I can think of, is our equal.

[KrazyHorse]

Sigh.

Just prior to the Viet Nam war, the Russians were ahead of us in missles and in the space race, and had a much larger army. The Chinese had a larger army as well.

We had a larger navy and bomber force.

At that time, the Russians overran Hungary and shipped missles to Cuba; and the German communist puppet government built the Berlin wall.

Our economy was about double that of Russia, but they were closing the gap.

I think were at rough parity with the communist block then. Today, no nation or combination that I can think of, is our equal

No individual nation...but you are weaker in comparison to world as whole than in 1960. Breaking down the enemy is only a delaying tactic if the world is catching up to you.

Think about it dear.

[KrazyHorse]

And of course we see an increasing American military hegemony. It will continue to increase until the relatively weakening American economy can no longer afford to pay for it.

It's the symptom of a nation gradually growing aware that its golden age has passed them by...

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Ned
SD, The King was Alfred the Great. As a youth, he visited Rome. As King, he encouraged education, brought scholars from the continent, and transalated certain works into Saxon. Here is a quote from Encarta.

"Alfred was a patron of learning and did much for the education of his people. He began a court school and invited British and foreign scholars, notably the Welsh monk Asser and the Irish-born philosopher and theologian John Scotus Erigena, to come there. Alfred translated such works as The Consolation of Philosophy by the Roman statesman and philosopher Boethius, The History of the World by the Spanish priest Paulus Orosius, and Pastoral Care by Pope Gregory I. Alfred's laws, the first promulgated in more than a century, were the first that made no distinction between the English and the Welsh peoples."

But how does that make England and Wales Roman though? (Alfred wasn't the King of all England, the first King of England wasn't until 50 yrs after Alfred's death)

It merely means there was Roman influence. My town has a Chinese restaurant and an Indian restaurant. They influence the society but we are not suddenly Indian or Chinese.

[Mr. President]

If we are the new Rome, our true golden age is not due for another couple of hundred years (if the time scale translates directly). Suck on it, Euros and Canucks.

[Giovanni Wine]

Originally posted by Mr. President
If we are the new Rome, our true golden age is not due for another couple of hundred years (if the time scale translates directly). Suck on it, Euros and Canucks.

But if we think it in Civ3 terms... your golden age has already ended (F-15s).

And probably the time ratio had also slowed down like in Civ3... so you should start your decline... uhmmm ..... NOW


Saluti

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Mr. President
If we are the new Rome, our true golden age is not due for another couple of hundred years (if the time scale translates directly). Suck on it, Euros and Canucks.

Things moved slower back then...

[Ned]

Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin


But how does that make England and Wales Roman though? (Alfred wasn't the King of all England, the first King of England wasn't until 50 yrs after Alfred's death)

It merely means there was Roman influence. My town has a Chinese restaurant and an Indian restaurant. They influence the society but we are not suddenly Indian or Chinese.

I think that Alfred represents the beginning of the end of the Dark age in England. Alfred deliberately tried to bring education and culture to England from Britain and from the continent. The culture he imported was Roman - because that was the only culture that existed in Europe at the time other than the culture of rape and pillage.

[Dauphin]

You really consider Norse, Celtic and Germanic cultures - major constituents of early English/Welsh culture - to be nothing but rape and pillage?

Thats what you appear to be saying.